is it better to fold pre-flop in an easy game w/ jacks?

[awakuni]

i was at the $40 nl game at commerce and the game was really easy as people were playing pretty badly (going broke with one pair, calling draws oop and without the right price, etc). so early in the session, after three limpers the co goes all-in for $19, i have jacks on the button. i have about $100. is this a situation that i have to call, or could i lay it down and wait b/c the players are so bad. do 2+2ers advocate giving up some pre-flop equity when the players are so weak and that there will be plenty of opportunities to make money later in the session by taking advantage of their horrible plays?

[Gonso]

$40 NL?

[deucethree]

prolly nl200. 1/2 game, $40 minimum buy-in.

[Gonso]

Well, you could reraise all-in to isolate, but here it would probably be best to let them go.

I certainly don't like a call here. In some cases it would be okay, but not with a few limpers yet to act behind you.

I don't know how much FE you'll have against several limpers if you shove, and no idea what they're range here is, esp if they're bad. You might be ahead, but if they really are that bad there will be better spots.

[awakuni]

so in this case, with really bad players, it might've been better to fold and get my money in a better spot? i also thought about the hand range of the co but in the previous hand he bluffed off 3/4 of his stack his ace-high and i felt like he was tilting.

on another note, the $40 nl is exactly that a 1/2 $40 max buy where players are super-nitty. the game is easily beatable, simply playing ABC/TAG poker.

[deucethree]

what were the other players' stacks? if effective stack was $40 that's prolly a pretty bad fold.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
do 2+2ers advocate giving up some pre-flop equity when the players are so weak and that there will be plenty of opportunities to make money later in the session by taking advantage of their horrible plays?

[/ QUOTE ]
In general, that there will be opportunities to get your money in as a favorite later does not justify making a horrible fold now.

If you have $100 and can bet as much as you want (up to $100) as a 3:2 favorite now, and as much as you want as a 4:1 favorite next hand, how much should you bet to maximize your expected result? Bet it all and let it ride to quadruple up 48% of the time.

If there is one particular villain whose play is particularly bad and you expect to be able to get all-in against him as a significant favorite, you may value chips up to that player's stack more than chips beyond it, which is reason to be risk averse. If you can bet up to $150 next hand as a 4:1 favorite, bet $50 now. If you can bet up to $80 next hand, bet $20 now.

When you play against a table full of bad players with different stack sizes, the value of your chips is close to linear, and there is little reason to be risk-averse.

[Paul2432]

In a cash game, the idea that there will be a "better spot" later is a terrible rational for making a play. You should make whatever play is most profitable in a given situation regardless of what might happen on a future hand. I can think of only two excpetions: 1) You are on a very limited bankroll and the game is extremely soft. In that case passing on marginally profitable high risk plays might be good idea. 2) In a capped buy-in game if you and a very bad player have a large stack compared to the buy-in it might be a good idea to fold a marginally profitable hand that risked your stack so you can take the bad players stack in a later hand (of course there is no guarantee, he could lose it to another player or leave the table).

That said, in the situation you've given, it's tough to say. If players are really loose, I'd probably call.

Paul

[drzen]

[ QUOTE ]
so in this case, with really bad players, it might've been better to fold and get my money in a better spot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't you rather be in that spot with your money, his money and the limpers' money when they all fold to your push?

[ QUOTE ]
i also thought about the hand range of the co but in the previous hand he bluffed off 3/4 of his stack his ace-high and i felt like he was tilting.

[/ QUOTE ]

And this inclines you to fold?

[ QUOTE ]
on another note, the $40 nl is exactly that a 1/2 $40 max buy where players are super-nitty. the game is easily beatable, simply playing ABC/TAG poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, why are you even asking the question? You have a pusher you think is on tilt, players you consider to be "super-nitty" and a great hand. If you don't push here, they need to drag you outside and shoot you.

[drzen]

[ QUOTE ]
That said, in the situation you've given, it's tough to say. If players are really loose, I'd probably call.


[/ QUOTE ]

He says they are "super nitty". I guess they're all folding either way, but I'd like ATs to pay the max to take his shot.