Why my 12 months in Iraq were NOT wasted.

[Moseley]

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I didn't say it was noble. What I was saying is that if our military choses what orders of the commander in chief they are going to follow, then we might as well not have a military.

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I don't really follow this logic. If I'm allowed to quit when my employer directs me to do something I don't like, does that mean we might as well not have companies? And when I say "don't like", I mean something that's not worth the compensation they're giving me.

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Unfortunately, that's not the way our military works. If you enlist for 4 years, you are in for 4 years and required to fullfill your duties.

If those soldiers who protested the war, were allowed to be discharged early, without penalty, we'd have major problems.

Bush is already having problems with many military members not re-enlisting, and, he will not be able to continue his "surge" in Iraq beyond March08, without the draft, or extending the tour of duty in Iraq longer than 15 months. The generals have already stated that 15 months is the max, and should be no more than 12 months.

How does it work in Canada?

[bdk3clash]

Did you now that this has been posted to Snopes?

[ThaSaltCracka]

Maybe a military man can clarify, but I believe a solider has the option to not follow out an order if he feels its morally incorrect or against the UCMJthingy. However when it comes to orders to ship out for battle, they don't have a choice.

That is actually an important tenet of any military. You know what you are getting into. You sign a form, swear an oath, and you have to obey it while you are in the military. It is quite different than anything in the civilian world.

[Taso]

I think it's far too early to say it's wasted.

[iron81]

Based on my expert military law knowledge gleaned from "JAG", an officer does not have to follow an illegal order. However, the superior officer who issues the order usually disagrees with that assessment and brings the soldier up on charges. The court martial then determines whether the order was in fact illegal. The chances of a court martial holding an order to deploy as illegal is remote.

[Moseley]

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Maybe a military man can clarify, but I believe a solider has the option to not follow out an order if he feels its morally incorrect or against the UCMJthingy. However when it comes to orders to ship out for battle, they don't have a choice.

That is actually an important tenet of any military. You know what you are getting into. You sign a form, swear an oath, and you have to obey it while you are in the military. It is quite different than anything in the civilian world.

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I spent 20 years in the military. The only order you can elect to not follow and get away with: An order that you believe is illegal. If it was a legal order, you better be able to provide solid testimony as to why you believed it was an illegal order.

When it comes to "moral" that has to do with religious beliefs and I'm not well versed on the military law on that one.

[ThaSaltCracka]

morally incorrect..illegal...same thing [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Nielsio]

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How is following the order of "go over to that country on the other side of the world and kill them until their defenses have given up and then supress the resistence of the people who still don't want you there", a noble thing?

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I didn't say it was noble. What I was saying is that if our military choses what orders of the commander in chief they are going to follow, then we might as well not have a military.

You must remember: U.S. citizens voted Bush into office AND THEN REELECTED the idiot.

You cannot fault the military, who took an oath to follow the orders of the commander in chief, who is elected by the citizens of the U.S.A.

I believe the problem lies in the fact that the majority of U.S. citizens are either easily fooled, card carrying republicans, or the election was fixed.

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Are you also proud of those guys who slaughtered an entire family and raped their daughter while doing it, and shot her in the head after?

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I said those members who followed the UCMJ.

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So to reiterate: when a human being drops a bomb from high above the clouds on a city where other humans live (and he himself lives on the other side of the world), he it not to blaim for the murder, even if he voluntarily agreed beforehand to do such a thing if it was asked of him?

Instead, other people are to blaim even if they are opposed to this action, and are forced to pay for the funding of the operation?

[Moseley]

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So to reiterate: when a human being drops a bomb from high above the clouds on a city where other humans live (and he himself lives on the other side of the world), he it not to blaim for the murder, even if he voluntarily agreed beforehand to do such a thing if it was asked of him?

Instead, other people are to blaim even if they are opposed to this action, and are forced to pay for the funding of the operation?

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It is covered in the bible (the BIG BOOK for those who believe in the imaginary friend for grownups, called GOD)that you are to follow the orders of your commanders when in the military.

They preached that to us in basic training.

I would prefer we hold an Olympics, or chess tournament, to determine who wins, but nobody will employ my recommendation.

[ThaSaltCracka]

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So to reiterate: when a human being drops a bomb from high above the clouds on a city where other humans live (and he himself lives on the other side of the world), he it not to blaim for the murder, even if he voluntarily agreed beforehand to do such a thing if it was asked of him?

[/ QUOTE ] yes. This is something military people battle internally about. There are a lot of stories of guys doing things they didn't want to. These people generally exit the military as soon as possible.