let's get the facts straight: poker makes money

youtalkfunny · #1 11-22-2007, 06:22 PM

RR, as usual, hits it on the head: "the demographics have changed", and very recently at that.

Even so, I'd still choose a sportsbook over a poker room. The pit players and slot players are far more likely to insist that the resort where they stay has a sportsbook, than a poker room. If I lose those players to the competition, I'll lose a lot more than I could possibly lose on "one big game" in the sportsbook--because I can often win "one big game" down the road to make up for it.

omaha · #2 11-22-2007, 06:29 PM

You think things are bad over where you live?

Try playing limit he in australia, star city casino.

$5/10 limit, each person pays .75c per hand, regardless of position!. Yes, over 100 hands, you will pay $75, or 7.5bb for the pleasure of playing!

Rick Nebiolo · #3 11-23-2007, 06:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You think things are bad over where you live?

Try playing limit he in australia, star city casino.

$5/10 limit, each person pays .75c per hand, regardless of position!. Yes, over 100 hands, you will pay $75, or 7.5bb for the pleasure of playing!

[/ QUOTE ]

That will nit-proof the game for sure [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

~ Rick

blueodum · #4 11-23-2007, 06:32 AM

"And what, may I ask, do you think most of these players waiting to play poker are doing?"

If they are anything like me, they are pacing and/or watching games from the rail until a seat opens up. Probably the number of times they visit the casino is inversely proportional to the length of the wait.

I don't think its unreasonable to suppose that well over half of the new breed of poker players wouldn't visit the casino - ever - if there was no poker there. I certainly wouldn't, as I have no interest in playing table games or slots.

If they magically found the space to double the size of the Fallsview poker room, there would be shorter waits, perhaps more game variety, and so people would come more often. Casual drop-in types, seeing that there is an immediate seat open, might choose to sit down in a poker game instead of leaving the casino after they've had their fill of table games and/or slots.

In short you would significantly increase the number of people coming into the casino and in some cases lengthen their stay.

Conversely, if you added 100 more slot machines (about the equivalent space wise of doubling the poker room), I doubt you'd get more than a tiny fractional increase in income - because there is such a large surplus of unused machines already.

And don't forget that high rollers sometimes win big at table games and spend that money somewhere else. You can't count on them dropping all their cash in the craps game. The casino gets guaranteed money from poker.

StevieG · #5 11-23-2007, 09:35 AM

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I don't think its unreasonable to suppose that well over half of the new breed of poker players wouldn't visit the casino - ever - if there was no poker there. I certainly wouldn't, as I have no interest in playing table games or slots.

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blueodom, I think you are off a bit on this estimate, but the point remains that poker is introducing new people to casinos.

More important, poker is the way young men (and women) are now introduced to gambling, in the US and likely other countries where the game has some penetration (UK, Germany, the Netherlands).

It has only been 4 years since Moneymaker won the WSOP. The impact of that young generation will persist.

They may not completely equate casinos with poker, but the association is there. They will expect poker to be available.

Just because the boom is over does not mean something fades away. Railways are still in business, the Internet is in use, and tulips are still pretty popular flowers [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

psandman · #6 11-23-2007, 02:22 PM

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More important, poker is the way young men (and women) are now introduced to gambling, in the US

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Don't be so sure that this is different than in the past.ii can't think of a gambling game I playe3d before I played poker (maybe I flipped baseball cards first but it would be close) As a small child I and my friends knew draw poker. As I got older we learned stud. I remember my first trip to a casino (it was with a couple of guys who I regularly played poker with) we didn't even think of poker on that trip. It wasn't till years later that I starte dto equate poker with caasino poker.

I would venture to guess that is a very common experience.

RR · #7 11-23-2007, 02:28 PM

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More important, poker is the way young men (and women) are now introduced to gambling, in the US

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Don't be so sure that this is different than in the past.ii can't think of a gambling game I playe3d before I played poker (maybe I flipped baseball cards first but it would be close) As a small child I and my friends knew draw poker. As I got older we learned stud. I remember my first trip to a casino (it was with a couple of guys who I regularly played poker with) we didn't even think of poker on that trip. It wasn't till years later that I starte dto equate poker with caasino poker.

I would venture to guess that is a very common experience.

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This hints at something else that poker players miss. Even though they make money from a poker player they might still not want them there. In a busy time poker players might take up hotel rooms so now if a slot player wants to come there they can't because the hotel is booked. Or maybe there is a tournament about to start so valet parking is backed up so the slot player drives on down the street.

StevieG · #8 11-23-2007, 09:56 PM

psandman,

I hear what you're saying, and as a kid I played penny ante poker, too (and pitched pennies, and flipped baseball cards).

Like you, though, it was draw poker, and with wild cards, etc. The casino games I knew about (poorly) were blackjack and craps. I did not know poker was available and would not have recognized what they were doing in the room (stud table, maybe, hold 'em definitely not).

But these guys are playing no-limit hold' em freezeouts with friends, following the same casino procedures they see on TV.

Unlike when you or I first walked into a casino, they are going to look for and recognize that same game, and won't be at all intimidated playing in it.

With the possible exception of the slot machines that look more and more like video games all the time (Top Gun, etc), poker will be more familiar to them than any other game in the casino.

Triumph36 · #9 11-24-2007, 04:44 AM

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And don't forget that high rollers sometimes win big at table games and spend that money somewhere else. You can't count on them dropping all their cash in the craps game. The casino gets guaranteed money from poker.

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Huh? Sure they do. Sure, any given player X is not guaranteed to go broke, but the whole point is that the casino edge will win out eventually. A casino's hourly expectation is higher per player for any table game than it is for poker.

I don't know that much about this subject but my suspicion is that casino management types really don't like losing out on money they could get otherwise - and people donking off money at poker to nits who won't touch the pit games is a scenario they detest.