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  #1  
Old 06-18-2007, 11:18 AM
WoodPaneling WoodPaneling is offline
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Default Hypothetical bubble situation (small raise, BB calling range)

Last night I was in a $5 SNG on FTP and a bubble situation came up that led to a pretty drawn-out debate between myself and my roommate.

We're 4 handed, myself and the guy to my left are both sitting on about 6k, there's a shortie with 540 to my right and the guy to his right has about 1250. Shortie jams UTG for 540 when blinds are 150/300, I call from the button, other big stack calls from SB, and BB (1250 guy) calls the extra 240.

I casually said the BB should basically be calling with almost any two cards here as he's getting great odds, and my roommate insisted that folding was correct the majority of the time because "it's the bubble" and putting in that much of your stack is too risky. I retorted by saying that I wouldn't necessarily be calling 100% of the time here, but if I had say 65 or 76 here that'd be the bottom end of my range and I'd definitely be calling getting almost 10:1 and a good chance of free cards after the flop. My roommate argued that putting in 1/5 of your stack on the bubble in this spot with a "[censored] hand" like 65 is absolutely wrong, and I called this kind of thinking nitty which seemed to really piss him off.

My point here was 5 out of 6 times you'll whiff the flop (fail to flop 2 pair/trips/OESD) and you're at 1000 instead of 1250, oh no! If you flop some kind of trips or 2 pair there's now a 2k pot on the table which puts you in a decent position when it goes to 3 handed assuming you win, and if you flop 2 pair or trips and somehow lose then the shortie is almost always out too, landing you in third anyway. As I said before if you flop some kind of straight draw you'll get to draw for free a decent amount of the time given how adamant people are about checking down.

I think all factors considered BB's calling range here should be very wide, pretty much calling with anything but complete rags, and folding anything with the least bit of potential here is weak/tight scared bubble play, however I'm not the most experienced SNG player ever so I'd love some input from some more experienced folks.
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  #2  
Old 06-18-2007, 11:55 AM
CBone CBone is offline
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Default Re: Hypothetical bubble situation (small raise, BB calling range)

In that situation, if I can assume that it is going to be checked around all the way, my range is pretty close to ATC. As you said, if I lose, I now have 1K instead of 1250, oh noes! It really doesn't make a difference, if you want to have the slightest chance to finish better than third, you need chips, and getting 10:1 on your money is just huge.
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  #3  
Old 06-18-2007, 12:10 PM
Th3R3dDr4g0n Th3R3dDr4g0n is offline
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Default Re: Hypothetical bubble situation (small raise, BB calling range)

Definitely agree with the two of you. Why in the world would the BB not get in this hand??

He can call to see the flop with no action behind him for just 240, when everyone at the table is involved and shortie is on life support? As you said, these guys are going to check down and even if they min-betted to keep 3rd/BB from sneaking chips, BB can fold it down and have a stellar chance to cash. And even then if he gets action to him post-flop, like you say, he may have hit a hand that even if dominated, may end him in 3rd anyways based on starting chip count.

Anything better than like 23o-35o and you have to put your foot in the water.
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  #4  
Old 06-18-2007, 12:29 PM
Beerocrat Beerocrat is offline
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Default Re: Hypothetical bubble situation (small raise, BB calling range)

If I am BB here, my range is tight. Let the big stacks take care of shorty, and get out of the way. Putting in 20% of your stack on a hand you will almost always lose is weak IMO. Your chances of hitting trips/straight/2 pr with your stated junk hands is not a good enough reason to call. I generally ignore pot odds as a reason to call when short stacked. It's push or fold with that stack, but that's just me.
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