Got a PM about "Natural Rights" - Page 3

wtfsvi · #21 10-23-2007, 09:10 PM

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Are you a pacifist? If not then so do you.

[/ QUOTE ] Yes I'm a pacifist. Except for in cases of self defence

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Do you or do you not consider defense of property "self defense"?

[/ QUOTE ] I do not.

AlexM · #22 10-23-2007, 09:13 PM

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Well-written OP, and I look foward to the ACist vs ASist debate that is about to follow.

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Meh, ACist vs ASist tends to be pointless and stupid. They're both right and they're both wrong. They both think that in anarchy their society would be "the one" to rise, but in the real world they would have to either split the world in two and avoid each other or one would have little subsections inside the other depending on how the population splits on the issue.

Copernicus · #23 10-23-2007, 09:14 PM

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I still lol. Do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ] Probably because you feel you have the right to use force to make me respect private property rights as you feel they are.

edit: and you find it funny that I disagree.

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Are you a pacifist? If not then so do you.

I LOL because you claim I'm not a "real" anarchist.

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You aren't. You are a pseudo-intellectual that doesn't have the courage to act in the manner you claim others should act.

and there are no "natural rights". All rights are derived from social norms including "self posession"

Mr_Moore · #24 10-23-2007, 09:15 PM

So i work and i earn money and i decide to purchase a bike and someone is trying to take that away from me, something that i have worked for and he has not and i am supposed to let him do that?

AlexM · #25 10-23-2007, 09:16 PM

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Sigh. In the case of you forcing people off "your property", you are also the one initiating the force.

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No, I'm not. Do you not believe in any form of property at all? By your "logic" if someone steals my bicycle and I try to stop them, I'm the one initiating force. Just because you happen to not believe in land property (which I question as most of those I've talked to about this in the past have shown they actually do) doesn't make this terrible logic valid.

[/ QUOTE ] I believe in property to the degree people agree to respect it. If someone steals your bicycle, you don't have a right to use force to stop him. You do however have the right to tell people that he took it (and prove it to them). If you live in a community where it's widely accepted that what he did was wrong, he will regret that he took your bicycle when people don't want to deal with him anymore.

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And in the real world where you have no idea who this guy is because there are 10 million people living in the immediate area? I guess people can just take whatever they want? No one ever has to work again!

wtfsvi · #26 10-23-2007, 09:21 PM

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And in the real world where you have no idea who this guy is because there are 10 million people living in the immediate area? I guess people can just take whatever they want? No one ever has to work again!

[/ QUOTE ] Are you saying exclusion from society will not work as a deterrent against crime in the real world? Some ACist.

AlexM · #27 10-23-2007, 09:23 PM

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And in the real world where you have no idea who this guy is because there are 10 million people living in the immediate area? I guess people can just take whatever they want? No one ever has to work again!

[/ QUOTE ] Are you saying exclusion from society will not work as a deterrent against crime in the real world? Some ACist.

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You can't exclude someone from society if you can't stop and catch them to even find out who they are.

wtfsvi · #28 10-23-2007, 09:24 PM

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And in the real world where you have no idea who this guy is because there are 10 million people living in the immediate area? I guess people can just take whatever they want? No one ever has to work again!

[/ QUOTE ] Are you saying exclusion from society will not work as a deterrent against crime in the real world? Some ACist.

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You can't exclude someone from society if you can't stop and catch them to even find out who they are.

[/ QUOTE ] Lock your bike.

And take a photo of them [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Mr_Moore · #29 10-23-2007, 09:25 PM

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And in the real world where you have no idea who this guy is because there are 10 million people living in the immediate area? I guess people can just take whatever they want? No one ever has to work again!

[/ QUOTE ] Are you saying exclusion from society will not work as a deterrent against crime in the real world? Some ACist.

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You can't exclude someone from society if you can't stop and catch them to even find out who they are.

[/ QUOTE ] Lock your bike.

And take a photo of them [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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Instead of alerting society perhaps i can simply remove his hands from my bike and continue my day?

AlexM · #30 10-23-2007, 09:31 PM

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And in the real world where you have no idea who this guy is because there are 10 million people living in the immediate area? I guess people can just take whatever they want? No one ever has to work again!

[/ QUOTE ] Are you saying exclusion from society will not work as a deterrent against crime in the real world? Some ACist.

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You can't exclude someone from society if you can't stop and catch them to even find out who they are.

[/ QUOTE ] Lock your bike.

And take a photo of them [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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So I have to carry a camera around with me at all times and be an expert photographer just to protect myself? What a fascinating society you have. Well, since people don't do this and won't want to, my point stands.