family pots = fireworks

[tarheeljks]

this is from a live game $0.10 BB. this was a family pot which was a little strange, but that's another issue. i have been mind****ing villain 1, so he is steaming a little. villain 2 is a average/bad tag (sb). I have 18.20, villain 1 covers w/about 25, villain 2 has a little over $10.
Hero is BB [2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]

UTG calls $0.10
UTG+1 calls $0.10
MP calls $0.10
MP+1 calls $0.10
CO calls $0.10
Button calls $0.10
SB calls $0.05
Hero checks

Flop [2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] Pot: $0.80

SB checks
Hero bets $0.60
5 folds
Button raises to $1.60
SB reraises to $4
Hero?

what's the best line? (i threw the fold in for kicks)

[Sense1ess]

Is SB capable of check-raising (especially with a bet and raise in front) w/ something you can beat here? Like AJ?

[tarheeljks]

i had the button on a draw and him on a weak jack. he didn't really have a read on my hand and i'm pretty sure he had the button on a draw also. since there were only 3 people once it came back around and he's the type to raise for info in this spot, so i thought he was capable of c/ring w/the weak jack here. i'd love to call keep him around, but i'm not interested in letting the button hit.

edit:i noticed a couple of people advocate folding. in an online game, (granted no decent full ring game would have a family pot) i would be much more concerned about the sb having a higher 2 pair, but his body language/demeanor more or less giving his hand away so i wasn't worried about a higher two pair.

[skiier04]

I think this is an easy fold. Even if you are ahead, which I don't think is too likely, your oppenents are going to have a good amount of outs to beat you. If you are behind, which I think is more likely, you are going to be drawing extremely thing or even dead to a set.

[Wolfram]

Push for value. There are a gazillion draws out there, and very few made hands that beat you. Jx is never folding, and neither is any draw except maybe a naked gutshot draw.

Sets are pretty unlikely 'cause there's only 1 combo left for the 5's and 2's, and I'm thinking we can discount JJ a little, unless these guys don't like raising with that hand. J5 or J2s is a possibility.

I think on average you have decent equity in this situtation so it's definitely a push.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
Push for value.

[/ QUOTE ]...and protection

Very likely we are ahead but very vulnerable

[Skleice]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is an easy fold. Even if you are ahead, which I don't think is too likely, your oppenents are going to have a good amount of outs to beat you. If you are behind, which I think is more likely, you are going to be drawing extremely thing or even dead to a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. Your already behind higher two pair or a set. But, what I hate is your reverse implied odds in this multiway pot. With the flush/straigt draws out there there are a lot outs against you. Also, your two pair can easily be counterfeited by the river. Maybe you have the best hand right now. But do you want to stack yourself to find out. There are better spots (especially if everybody is limping in this game).

[True]

reverse implied odds have nothing to do with being all in and losing the pot if someone hits the flush.

They have to do with calling with a hand that can easily become a second best made hand getting 3:1 or something, but with the possibility of calling further bets thus decreasing your immediate / estimated effective odds.

[Debaser]

You're about 50% in a best case scenario, say against J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] so if you trust your reads you should just shove all in and hope it holds up.

If there's any chance one of them has a better made hand (and it seems a bit optimistic to discount it altogether) then this is the easiest fold ever.

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is an easy fold. Even if you are ahead, which I don't think is too likely, your oppenents are going to have a good amount of outs to beat you. If you are behind, which I think is more likely, you are going to be drawing extremely thing or even dead to a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. Your already behind higher two pair or a set.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you don't have the nuts, then you're always behind a few hands. What you have to do is decide what their range of hands is and then figure out how your holding fares against theirs. At these stakes, you need one hell of a read to decide that a 3bettor is only 3betting the flop with a set. Also, since you're holding two of the key cards in any made hand on this flop, it decreases the chance that somebody has one of those hands. There are only 5 possible sets on this flop for instance.

[ QUOTE ]
But, what I hate is your reverse implied odds in this multiway pot. With the flush/straigt draws out there there are a lot outs against you. Also, your two pair can easily be counterfeited by the river. Maybe you have the best hand right now.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is no such thing as Reverse Implied Odds when all the money is in the pot. Folding the favorite hand because there is a chance that it won't be best in the end is ridiculous. Put your money in when you have an advantage.

[ QUOTE ]
There are better spots (especially if everybody is limping in this game).

[/ QUOTE ]
You need to push every edge you get. If you aren't willing to put your stack in on a 55-45 situation then you are playing scared (bad) poker.