PLO 200 pot control/thin river?

[CrushinFelt]

Blinds 1/2

Don't have hand history so here you go:

1 limp, Hero limps in MP with 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] , 2 more limp

Flop: (Pot $12)

9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Checked to villain in CO who bets $8, only Hero calls

Turn: Pot ($28)
5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero leads for $12, villain thinks for a bit and calls

River: Pot ($52)
Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero Checks, villain lets time get about 3/4 of the way down and bets pot, Hero ??

My thoughts on the hand:

The whole table is playing pretty straight-forward but a little weak. Flop call may be a little thin, but his range is pretty wide here. On the turn I lead weak weak hoping to get to the river cheap now that I have picked up more outs (I bet like this on the turn a few hands earlier with the nuts to induce a raise and the whole table saw when my hand held up at the end).

On the river, I got a little lost and thought he could easily have bet the flop and called turn with NFD so I checked.

1) Where were my mistakes?
2) Who calls river?
3) Who leads the river? If so, fold to a raise? Does anything call us that we beat?


Basically I played this hand a little thin and not aggressive enough and got a little lost.

[iggymcfly]

Fold preflop. If you call preflop, your best flop line is check/fold, and your second best is to lead. Check/calling's terrible. The turn bet's pretty awful too. If somehow, you take that [censored] hand to the river, it should still be a fold.

[CrushinFelt]

That's a grumpy post.

1) Preflop is standard for me when any sort of combo draw or two pair can likely take down the pot. Any big raise behind me will likely leave me heads-up against a fairly predicatble opponent.

2) Why lead the flop? Just because I would with sets about 80% of the time?

3) The turn bet, as I said, was a bit more meta-game related and allowed me to get to the river cheaply as long as he doesn't hold the nuts.

4) You say fold the river, but I am actually more inclined to call this river because it's a full pot bet. Most players want to get some actual value out of the nuts and will not bet full pot here if they have it.

Yes I think this line is confusing and makes the hand difficult on me. However, at weaker tables I tend to make plays that are a little more thin to suck up some more value out of the nits.

[CastlesMadeASand]

the only part i like is folding the river.

[iggymcfly]

OK, sorry for being "grumpy"; I'll break it down a little more.

1) Preflop's not terrible, but it's not good either. It's best feature is three moderately connected cards. You've got some weak suits, but those aren't going to help you much in a multi-way pot. If you were OTB, I could see it, but it's just not a good hand to play in MP.

2) On the flop, you have zero outs to the nuts and zero chance of winning unimproved. Thus, you don't want to check and call a bet that's close to pot-sized. You either just barely have the odds to call or are drawing close to dead depending on what you're up against. If you are going to play this, the only way you can get value is by trying to take down the pot and using your draws as backup. However, they're so weak that check/folding is your best play, especially when you'll likely be playing the pot OOP.

3. The turn bet's stupid. You don't want to take third pair + weak FD to a cheap showdown. You either want to represent the straight and give yourself a chance to win the pot or you want to give up. Nobody's going to put you on a straight with that weak bet anyway, so you'll either get raised off your draw when you're up against a made hand or you'll be drawing to the worst hand against another flush draw when you get a cheap river.

4. The reason I say fold the river is because he ran down 3/4 of his time. The type of player that thinks a bluff needs to be the full pot to look strong is the same type of player that thinks a bluff has to be made in the first 5 seconds to be strong. Usually, when someone hesitates like that, they're trying to think of the best way to get value.

[spino1i]

Fold.. like everywhere..

[Ribbo]

Fold preflop, then you wont have difficult decisions to make with terrible hands. If not, then fold the flop and fold the turn, oh and fold the river.