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#11
02-02-2007, 06:28 PM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] but the idea of going to hell for eternity for any reason seems very contradictory to this teaching. [/ QUOTE ] The doctrine of hell is pretty much the worst invention of humanity, at least in theory. In practice I think most people who believe in hell are too shortsighted or unimaginative to appreciate the magnitude of that. Simply by being alive, you're perpetually risking a fate worse than anyone has ever imagined. That makes a gun in your face seem like a bucket of fun. [/ QUOTE ] This seems very true. In fact, if God knew you were going to lead a life that led you to go to hell, then your only point in being alive was to be tormented forever after you die. But you did not have a say in being brought into this world. So you were forced to exist, and because of that you suffer eternal repercussions. Can a christian present some justification for this? I would really like some insight. 
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#12
02-02-2007, 06:31 PM
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Re: hell
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[ QUOTE ] the idea of going to hell for eternity [/ QUOTE ] Chapter and verse, please. [/ QUOTE ] Are you saying hell is not eternal? I have been told my whole life that it is, I specifically remember hearing it that way in church. I will have to reread some of the bible and see if I can find it in there. Can you explain your position more?
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#14
02-02-2007, 06:39 PM
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Re: hell
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read revelations, there will be a day that God will defeat the devil, etc, etc. not really sure what happens to people in hell after that. secondly, you put too much emphasis on the value and importance of life. if you believe in an afterlife, death isn't as bad as it seems. finally, if i kill someone who would have eventually killed 2 people, am i doing good? [/ QUOTE ] Life becomes so much MORE important when you believe in an afterlife, because 1 mistake in your existence here (not believing in God) can haunt you for ETERNITY. As to your example, you kill person "X" who was going to kill person "Z" 5 years from now. This saves Z's life. What if Z is a good christian and would of went to heaven the day X killed him. Now he doesn't die in 5 years and let's say 10 years from now he renounces Christianity and becomes an atheist. Because you killed his would be murderer, he is now doomed to go from heaven to hell due to circumstances beyond his control. Wow this can get very complicated. I would say it is impoosible to know if you are doing good no matter the example.
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#16
02-02-2007, 07:20 PM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] the idea of going to hell for eternity [/ QUOTE ] Chapter and verse, please. [/ QUOTE ] Are you saying hell is not eternal? I have been told my whole life that it is, I specifically remember hearing it that way in church. I will have to reread some of the bible and see if I can find it in there. Can you explain your position more? [/ QUOTE ] The eternal BBQ is a non-Biblical concept from the Greeks. When interpreting any ancient writings, a proper understanding of cultural context and original sources (rather than mere translations) is essential.
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#17
02-02-2007, 07:28 PM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] read revelations, there will be a day that God will defeat the devil, etc, etc. not really sure what happens to people in hell after that. secondly, you put too much emphasis on the value and importance of life. if you believe in an afterlife, death isn't as bad as it seems. finally, if i kill someone who would have eventually killed 2 people, am i doing good? [/ QUOTE ] Life becomes so much MORE important when you believe in an afterlife, because 1 mistake in your existence here (not believing in God) can haunt you for ETERNITY. As to your example, you kill person "X" who was going to kill person "Z" 5 years from now. This saves Z's life. What if Z is a good christian and would of went to heaven the day X killed him. Now he doesn't die in 5 years and let's say 10 years from now he renounces Christianity and becomes an atheist. Because you killed his would be murderer, he is now doomed to go from heaven to hell due to circumstances beyond his control. Wow this can get very complicated. I would say it is impoosible to know if you are doing good no matter the example. [/ QUOTE ] exactly, that is why deeds without faith is useless (but faith without deeds is also useless too). I would recommend reading the new testament YOURSELF and making your own decisions. you should not always trust what other people tell you. In this case, everything you've learned/heard about hell is probably (partially) wrong. Edit: btw, i should add that "not believing in God" does not necessarily mean 100% you will go to hell ... at least that is my opinion (this is one of those hotly debated topics that atheists love to bring up)
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#18
02-02-2007, 09:51 PM
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Re: hell
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The eternal BBQ is a non-Biblical concept from the Greeks. When interpreting any ancient writings, a proper understanding of cultural context and original sources (rather than mere translations) is essential. [/ QUOTE ] That's absolutely absurd. The "fire" part is direct. The "eternal" part varies, but is expressed in various contexts over and over again. Here's a brief bit from an apologetic site, but it really only scratches the surface. For example, the term "asbestos" (inextinguishable) isn't the only one used to describe hell - "awniou" and "aionion" (both mean neverending) are also used.
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#19
02-02-2007, 10:25 PM
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Re: hell
If God does exist but not in the strict Christian definition, do you think it makes him happy to see people read the Bible and then subsequently commit hate crimes against homosexuals?
A metaphor is a rhetorical device. By definition a metaphor provokes thought in the reader by making him apply the hypothetical to his own life. The bible dictates how one applies the metaphores to one's life. You must pray. You must believe in Jesus. You must believe Jesus died for your sins. These are not metaphores. This is not to say that metaphores do not exist in the bible, but they are few and far between. Most can be simply replaced by the golden rule. If we strip the bible of everything but its power as a metaphore, you're left with a completely dharmic religion. In my opinion, Christianity is the definition of dogma.
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#20
02-02-2007, 10:29 PM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The eternal BBQ is a non-Biblical concept from the Greeks. When interpreting any ancient writings, a proper understanding of cultural context and original sources (rather than mere translations) is essential. [/ QUOTE ] That's absolutely absurd. The "fire" part is direct. The "eternal" part varies, but is expressed in various contexts over and over again. Here's a brief bit from an apologetic site, but it really only scratches the surface. For example, the term "asbestos" (inextinguishable) isn't the only one used to describe hell - "awniou" and "aionion" (both mean neverending) are also used. [/ QUOTE ] Absurd? Well, that's your opinion. Chapter and verse, if you don't mind. Not links.
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