Straight draw on the flop

[bobbycharles]

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If you're villain how do you play KJ?

[/ QUOTE ] Fold pf.

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You are really going to fold KJ to a miniraise from the other big stack, in position with 44 BBs?

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A lot of the time, yes. Two Big Stacks at the table and he has played reasonable, this close to the final table. Why mix it up with the only player at the table that can devastate your stack with a tricky hand? I have no qualms about folding KJ preflop as Villain 2 and 5 more act behind me.

[woodguy]

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What range of hands would villain smooth call a min raise and C-bet with?

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Made straights J8s (mabye, little thin PF), KJs/o, or most probably a pair + draw QJ,JT,J9, maybe even JJ

A more donktacular opponents can widen the range, but that's probably good.

Regards,
Woodguy

[endoguy]

I think that this hand shows the dangers of JT. I remember early on in my poker reading I made the mistake of reading Helmuth's book and I seem to remember how he liked JT as being a stealty hand. I also remember the fact that all straights will contain either a 5 or a T (and wouldn't you want the straight with the T!)

The problem is that the the cards you need to hit in order to make your hand , will all too often complete your opponents hand. Or atleast give him a draw that if he hits will likely beat you.

ie: you have JT he has KQ flop comes JT2 giving you two pair but your opponent an open ended straight draw.

or the reverse you have JT the flop comes AQ9 you have the open ended straight draw but its just a draw. your oppone nts likely holdings (since they were a raiser and you were the caller) would include all the possible card you would hate for him to have. ie: AA-99, AK-A9 etc. The turn could bring a K completing your straight but could also be completing the straight of your opponent. woop dee doo--chopped pot.

I didn't want to get into hypothetical hands but yours is a reminder that I never like calling a raise with JT, 'cause when i do, i'm asking for trouble.

Dolye Brunson exlpains this much better than I could in Supersystem (I or II) when he discussed why he prefers 76 over JT.

For what it is worth, I would have folded PF.

[0evg0]

Jesus, Noah continues to battle betgo for the title of biggest nit.

The only thing grosser than folding this on the flop is folding this preflop.

Nath, can you please back me up here? k thx

[nath]

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Jesus, Noah continues to battle betgo for the title of biggest nit.

The only thing grosser than folding this on the flop is folding this preflop.

Nath, can you please back me up here? k thx

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ZOMG ARRRRRRRRR INNNNNNNNNNNNN

[0evg0]

Pleasure doing business with you.

[registrar]

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Push? Fold? Fold pf? Both players seem solid, nothing out of line. Final two tables of $50 tournament. My stack is a little below average. 15 players left, I'm in 9th place.

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1000/t2000
Ante: t75
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t400
UTG+1: t86424
MP1: t88403
CO: t58903
Button: t19709
SB: t19478
Hero: t32031

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to t4000</font>, MP1 calls t4000 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t4150)</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls t2000 <font color="#aaaaaa">(pot was t8150)</font>.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t12075, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets t5800</font>, MP1 calls t5800,
<font color="#aaaaaa">(pot is t23675, hero has t28031)</font> <font color="#cc0000">Hero ???

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I'm amazed that anyone folds here pre-flop, what with a min-raise, a smooth call and the odds we're being laid.

Can we also presume that neither of the villains are playing KJ here? I would be working on that assumption.

That's the easy part. OR has to c-bet here, and bets a set bigger, I think. I don't like the smooth call from MP. He must have connected with the flop to some degree. If we push, I assume that UTG+1 folds and that, closing the action, MP is priced in for a call. The only hand I can see him having here that we are beating is AJ, so I fold.

This is having given it more thought than I normally would and without reads. If I thought there was any chance that MP could ignore the odds he's getting laid and the chance to eliminate a shorter stack, I might push. In fact, I probably think: "pair and OESD: it doesn't get any better than this" and push.

PS: I'm not sure why this is all in red [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[0evg0]

I'd expect MP to have AJ/T9/KJ/KT/AT here the majority of the time.

And I'm not discounting KJ from his range, especially if he's an average 3R player.

Still push this all day, every day.

[registrar]

Maybe I'm getting my threads confused: isn't this final two tables of a $50 buy in? If so, while anything is possible, I wouldn't be assigning KJ an equal weight in my range, nor K10, with the other hands that you mention.

[0evg0]

My bad, was thrown off by the huge stacks.

Yeah, this is AJ/T9/AT like a ton.