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  #61  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:16 PM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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How about this - when you read one full page of pure idiotic drivel

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Madnak,

When I read the ABC article I thought to myself the Pope can't be this stupid it must be the reporting. So I read what other news sources had to say. It turns out I was right. The ABC article was pure drivel. The OPs comments about it make sense if you've only read that ABC article. However, now after reading actual excerpts from the encycical the OPs original comments and the ABC article itself look foolish. I'm not trying to slam the OP as its obvious he was misled by horrible reporting by ABC.

Stu
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  #62  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:25 PM
Peter666 Peter666 is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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Unless you can demonstrate that you're happier than a religious theist, why on earth should they take atheism seriously?

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This statement reminds me of this quote:

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one."

George Bernard Shaw

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Not surprising, coming from the man who recommended Josef Stalin for the Nobel Peace Prize.

If happiness is not a person's main goal, then I don't think they're human.
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  #63  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:31 PM
Peter666 Peter666 is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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From a long list of theist poster comments on here, it's also what keeps them from being sociopaths.

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Anyone who needs religion to make them moral is a sociopath.

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Anyone who subjugates themselves to a society's morals rather than following their own will is a slave.
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  #64  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:32 PM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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The same thing that makes us recognize Stalin and Mao as evil, is what is so evil about religion. It is not that they are atheists. It's that they demand your heart and your mind. They wish to have total control over every aspect of our lives private and personal. They want to have control over our sons and daughters. Our labor and our pleasure. We can give nothing short of obedience to them.

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If you want to make valid points against the Pope's encycical you have show that the Pope was wrong when he made the statement "The atheism of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries is -- in its origins and aims -- a type of moralism". If you do not make an argument against that statement it appears you agree with that statement and just have a double standard.

Stu
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  #65  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:43 PM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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Uh, "within the confines of nature." Didn't God set up those confines? So why do "the confines of nature" actually result in incredible suffering (nature probably causes more suffering than man, or has historically)? Further, why do the confines of nature allow man great latitude in spreading awful pain, but limit his power to alleviate suffering?


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I don't understand this attitude that living things are somehow entitled to be free of suffering. That an injustince was done in that we were created incomplete. I have never felt incomplete.

Stu
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  #66  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:44 PM
VarlosZ VarlosZ is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

Peter,

So, did you decide to be Christian because you think you'll be happiest that way? And if you thought you'd be happier as a Hindu, would you convert?
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  #67  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:39 PM
luckyme luckyme is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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If you want to make valid points against the Pope's encycical you have show that the Pope was wrong when he made the statement "The atheism of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries is -- in its origins and aims -- a type of moralism". If you do not make an argument against that statement it appears you agree with that statement and just have a double standard.

Stu

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We have a law against forced opt-out in this state so I don't follow your logic. Iow, it's assumed you don't agree with stuff you haven't agreed to.

luckyme
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  #68  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:40 PM
Peter666 Peter666 is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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Peter,

So, did you decide to be Christian because you think you'll be happiest that way? And if you thought you'd be happier as a Hindu, would you convert?

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Yes, if I was convinced that a Hindu could be happier than a Christian after all was said and done, I would naturally want to be a Hindu.

But I am a Christian because of the grace of faith. Without that grace, I could not be absolutely sure of an afterlife of happiness.
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  #69  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:22 PM
madnak madnak is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

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So you've given us your theory on the evil in nature (which the major religions agree with)

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Uh, the major religions believe that God created nature. Therefore, if this is true, then the major religions believe that God created evil. Thus, evil is God's choice, not man's choice. Which refutes the attempts at theodicy earlier in the thread. If I'm not mistaken, you don't believe God is omnibenevolent, or even particularly benevolent at all. So it might not concern you that God created evil, or that God made reality evil.

But I'd argue that the problem of evil is relevant for any compassionate person, and if evil was God's choice, then the standard responses to the problem are refuted. It also means that God (if God exists) cannot be omnix3.

We could get into questions about the so-called "sinful nature" of man, etc etc, but Benedict himself sometimes waves away the problem of evil with the fallacious "oh well that's man's problem, not God's" [censored].

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Which is what religion proposes to do, although they go to God for help, whereas you summon the giant within Anthony Robbins style.

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Of course, of course. The imaginary man-in-the-clouds has a proven track record, while human ingenuity has never gotten us anywhere.
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  #70  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:24 PM
madnak madnak is offline
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Default Re: Pope blames atheism for all the worlds problems.

[ QUOTE ]
When I read the ABC article I thought to myself the Pope can't be this stupid it must be the reporting. So I read what other news sources had to say. It turns out I was right. The ABC article was pure drivel. The OPs comments about it make sense if you've only read that ABC article. However, now after reading actual excerpts from the encycical the OPs original comments and the ABC article itself look foolish. I'm not trying to slam the OP as its obvious he was misled by horrible reporting by ABC.

[/ QUOTE ]

I responded to the quote you posted, it was no better than what the article said (though I agree some of the article was dishonest).
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