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  #31  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:31 PM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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God is theorized because he can fit anything and is comforting.

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Thats exactly how I feel about alternate-universes/ multi-universe models. You can concieve of an alternate universe and imagine it anyway way you want to fit any problem you want. No one can say you're wrong because no one can test for or disprove the existence it.

I'm I wrong to think that way?

I ask the good atheist in this forum. Where is your faith? In the single universe model or the multi-universe model.

Stu
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  #32  
Old 11-15-2007, 04:04 PM
madnak madnak is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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I'm I wrong to think that way?

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Yes.

The many worlds interpretation of quantum events is relevant because it explains certain observations. To put it another way, it suggests that there are other universes connected to our own universe. It's speculation but we may be able to test it eventually. The scientific fact is that we have no idea how many universes there are.
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  #33  
Old 11-15-2007, 04:25 PM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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To put it another way, it suggests that there are other universes connected to our own universe. It's speculation but we may be able to test it eventually. The scientific fact is that we have no idea how many universes there are.

[/ QUOTE ]

You say I'm wrong but in the very next breath agree the multi-universe model is just speculation. Sounds like you're promoting a double standard. Its wrong to take comfort in the speculative existence of a creator, but ok to take comfort in the speculative existence of many worlds, alternate universes, etc.

Madnak, what does your gut tell you is correct. One universe or many?

Stu
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  #34  
Old 11-15-2007, 04:40 PM
madnak madnak is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

My "gut" isn't a valid approach to this question. I'm not indulging you.

Nobody has said it's wrong to take comfort in the speculative existence of a creator, nor has anyone said it's okay to take comfort in the speculative existence of many worlds. Personally? I think it's fine to take comfort in any speculation. Just recognize that it's only speculation and that others may see it differently.
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  #35  
Old 11-15-2007, 04:54 PM
Justin A Justin A is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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I ask the good atheist in this forum. Where is your faith? In the single universe model or the multi-universe model.

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither.
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  #36  
Old 11-15-2007, 07:26 PM
bunny bunny is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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You say I'm wrong but in the very next breath agree the multi-universe model is just speculation. Sounds like you're promoting a double standard. Its wrong to take comfort in the speculative existence of a creator, but ok to take comfort in the speculative existence of many worlds, alternate universes, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont think that's where the objection to God comes in. I dont think many athiests object to speculation - it's asserting the speculation as a known fact (and then proceeding to make various other deductions and resultant actions) that they object to.

I'm sure most atheists here would object to someone asserting that they know with certainty that the multi-universe model is correct - especially if they then went on to make a whole bunch of moral pronouncements based on that speculation.
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  #37  
Old 11-15-2007, 09:29 PM
MaxWeiss MaxWeiss is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
God is theorized because he can fit anything and is comforting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats exactly how I feel about alternate-universes/ multi-universe models. You can concieve of an alternate universe and imagine it anyway way you want to fit any problem you want. No one can say you're wrong because no one can test for or disprove the existence it.

I'm I wrong to think that way?

I ask the good atheist in this forum. Where is your faith? In the single universe model or the multi-universe model.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

Well again, a multiverse was derived from quantum data. When we derived the physical implications of that the results from the equations mean, multiple universes were one possibility. And it IS testable. Specific quantum effects can be theorized and tested for.

I don't know much about the theory, but I will happily say that if you are right in that it cannot be tested, then you are absolutely right in that it is faith-based to believe it and unscientific. As for "believing" in one or many universes, I have no specific belief. I believe only what can be inferred from the data.
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  #38  
Old 11-16-2007, 03:21 AM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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I don't know much about the theory, but I will happily say that if you are right in that it cannot be tested, then you are absolutely right in that it is faith-based to believe it and unscientific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something I have been thinking about for the past couple of months is that science will never be able to explain it all. There will always be some point when all we can do is speculate. After a while technology may allow us to move beyond speculation and into hard science. However, eventually we will get to a speculation point that the physical laws of our universe prevent us from passing. Science will never be able to give us a complete world veiw. To have that, we have to have faith in some ideal, some belief or some creator. Thats as true for the atheist as much as it is for the theist.

Stu
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  #39  
Old 11-16-2007, 04:17 AM
Sephus Sephus is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

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Science will never be able to give us a complete world veiw. To have that, we have to have faith in some ideal, some belief or some creator.

[/ QUOTE ]





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  #40  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:59 AM
Justin A Justin A is offline
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Default Re: should all good athiest sceintist should believe in......

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know much about the theory, but I will happily say that if you are right in that it cannot be tested, then you are absolutely right in that it is faith-based to believe it and unscientific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something I have been thinking about for the past couple of months is that science will never be able to explain it all. There will always be some point when all we can do is speculate. After a while technology may allow us to move beyond speculation and into hard science. However, eventually we will get to a speculation point that the physical laws of our universe prevent us from passing. Science will never be able to give us a complete world veiw. To have that, we have to have faith in some ideal, some belief or some creator. Thats as true for the atheist as much as it is for the theist.

Stu

[/ QUOTE ]

How you go from science not having all the answers to needing to believe in a creator is beyond me. If it helps you sleep better, by all means make guesses about stuff we can't observe. Also, LOL at saying an imaginary being that you have faith in gives you a complete world view.
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