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Old 11-15-2007, 01:25 PM
bluesbassman bluesbassman is offline
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Default Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

I thought this might be of interest to this forum.

NOVA on PBS has produced a very good (imho) documentary about the Kitzmiller vs. Dover School District case. Recall that is the case in which "intelligent design" was exposed to the court for what it is: namely, a transparent sham created to sneak religious teachings into high school science curricula.

The program not only details some of the interesting, and often amusing, evidence presented in the case, but also provides a rather good summary of the most compelling scientific evidence which supports evolution. One word of warning: you might find the statements made by the lunatics who deny evolution to be disturbing.

It appears the program will be rebroadcast by most local PBS stations at least through the weekend. Also, it will apparently be available online on the PBS site beginning 11/16. (The show might be available right now on youtube, but I can't access that site from this computer.)

ID on Trial homepage

ID on Trial webcast
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2007, 02:21 PM
bbbaddd bbbaddd is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

Good reads. On the ID on Trial homepage you can read the account of the main proposer of intelligent design.

I would have loved one of the questions to be "Sir, do you know what a false dichotomy is?"
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Old 11-15-2007, 02:49 PM
Splendour Splendour is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

Quote: a transparent sham created to sneak religious teachings into high school science curricula.

Why is it a sham? Lots of things overlap in this world. Since when are parents to give up all responsibility for their children's education?

Many scientists are divided on this issue. Science isn't served by dominance of 1 area of science. Science is much too complicated and interrelated with other areas of science to hold one aspect of science as iconic over another. Besides science is almost constantly under revision. Do you think everything we are taught is always correct? Aren't people constantly learning, relearning, applying and re-applying. People can't find the mistakes if you don't teach everything. Besides what if a discovery spins off from the teaching of intelligent design?

An excerpt: "Darwin himself set the standard when he acknowledged, "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/nhmag.html
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:06 PM
Wubbie075 Wubbie075 is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: a transparent sham created to sneak religious teachings into high school science curricula.

Why is it a sham? Lots of things overlap in this world. Since when are parents to give up all responsibility for their children's education?

[/ QUOTE ]

Parents are free to send their children to privately funded schools which may set any curriculum they want. But publicly funded schools must not teach religiously based curricula.

[ QUOTE ]
Besides what if a discovery spins off from the teaching of intelligent design?

[/ QUOTE ]

no one is saying intelligent design should not be taught. They are saying ID should not be taught in a SCIENCE class in a publicly funded school.

[ QUOTE ]
An excerpt: "Darwin himself set the standard when he acknowledged, "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you watch the program? The idea of "Irreducible complexity" was directly addressed.
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Old 11-15-2007, 03:09 PM
Neuge Neuge is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

I caught this on Monday, though I missed the first 15 minutes or so. It's a pretty good overview of the case and the people involved. I was pretty surprised at how vitriolic the defendants from the school board still are about the decision.
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:15 PM
chezlaw chezlaw is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: a transparent sham created to sneak religious teachings into high school science curricula.

Why is it a sham? Lots of things overlap in this world. Since when are parents to give up all responsibility for their children's education?

[/ QUOTE ]
Deliberate organised dishonesty, what that's got to do with overlap, and from people who claim to believe in a god who told them not to lie.

the ID movement is rotten to its core and everyone (especially christians) who believes in honesty should disown it.

chez
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:15 PM
mbillie1 mbillie1 is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it a sham?

[/ QUOTE ]

if you are doing research/experiments and you are unwilling to accept results that contradict your position, you aren't doing science... this is why ID fails, this is why "christian science" is an oxymoron - assuming christianity to be true beyond the realm of a mere hypothesis automatically makes you unscientific.
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:18 PM
Stu Pidasso Stu Pidasso is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

[ QUOTE ]

Did you watch the program? The idea of "Irreducible complexity" was directly addressed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Overall I thought it was a great program and recommend it to anyone who does not believe in evolution. However I don't think they did a sufficient job in overcoming the ideal of "Irreducible complexity". I've been thinking about starting a thread in this forum becuase it certainly is a subject worth discussing.

Stu
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:20 PM
Splendour Splendour is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

Quote: Parents are free to send their children to privately funded schools which may set any curriculum they want. But publicly funded schools must not teach religiously based curricula.

No parents are not free. Usually all education entails an expense or sacrifice of some type after they already paid for the public school with their tax dollars.

A lot of parents are taking on the burden of homeschooling now. That costs them time and effort. Time always ='s money.

People are due the education they already paid for without science dictating the terms. Science is for the benefit of mankind not the other way around.

As for separation of church and state if the Scientists want to get too anal I'm sure some Congressmen will start a new law or maybe get a grassroots National Amendment movement started to protect taxpayer's rights. There's just as much to be said that this is a science issue not just a religious issue that can be argued and exception to laws are passed by Congress everyday. If they do a national referendum and pass it even the Supreme Court won't be able to overturn it.

Note: I couldn't see the program. I couldn't access it.
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2007, 03:23 PM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Judgement Day: ID on Trial (LC)

<font color="blue"> Many scientists are divided on this issue. </font>

Why do you guys insist on lying about this? Many scientists are NOT divided on this issue! Only a scant minority are. The overwhleming majority of scientists accept evolution. Period. Stop lying!
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