I really don't buy into most conspiracy theories BUT.......

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Taraz,

1- Moderate Muslims should most certainly get more press. I also think though, because of fear, moderates are silent in many of the countries we are talking about

2- I would happily go with a statement that suggests that the Bible=the Quran in terms of violence and teachings that can be used for violence; hence why both religions have violent supporters and violent pasts. I will however suggest to you that the modern radical teaching of the Quran in these fundamentalist sects highlights the violence; that's what makes "radical" Islam truly radical.

3- You're suggesting that poll numbers taken on a nation-nation basis, within Muslim populations only (left that out in my original post) ... would suggest what? I would merely suggest what they do in fact show... that a pretty shocking number of Muslims in developed and non developed nations support the use of suicide bombing and campaigns of terrorism. (This of course does not mean that I consider the objectors to these notions somehow more violent for being Muslims) (At some point Im sure we can google those results on up for the thread... if it hasn't already been done in other threads)

It is of course not just the religion. The society, the economics, etc all play a significant role. I just think it's naive to say "OMG they hate us because we have troops in Saudi Arabia or support Israel" when it is faaaar more complex than just that. As I mentioned before I think the largest components have been the shift in Islamic teachings (in some groups/regions focusing on more violent aspects or more properly selectively showing the Quran to justify violence), that educations impact on fragile, stunted, and scared youth, and our unwillingness to actually bother with those two issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are aware of the study showing that more Americans support the targeting of innocent civilians than Muslims do,right?

[Rearden]

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[ QUOTE ]
Taraz,

1- Moderate Muslims should most certainly get more press. I also think though, because of fear, moderates are silent in many of the countries we are talking about

2- I would happily go with a statement that suggests that the Bible=the Quran in terms of violence and teachings that can be used for violence; hence why both religions have violent supporters and violent pasts. I will however suggest to you that the modern radical teaching of the Quran in these fundamentalist sects highlights the violence; that's what makes "radical" Islam truly radical.

3- You're suggesting that poll numbers taken on a nation-nation basis, within Muslim populations only (left that out in my original post) ... would suggest what? I would merely suggest what they do in fact show... that a pretty shocking number of Muslims in developed and non developed nations support the use of suicide bombing and campaigns of terrorism. (This of course does not mean that I consider the objectors to these notions somehow more violent for being Muslims) (At some point Im sure we can google those results on up for the thread... if it hasn't already been done in other threads)

It is of course not just the religion. The society, the economics, etc all play a significant role. I just think it's naive to say "OMG they hate us because we have troops in Saudi Arabia or support Israel" when it is faaaar more complex than just that. As I mentioned before I think the largest components have been the shift in Islamic teachings (in some groups/regions focusing on more violent aspects or more properly selectively showing the Quran to justify violence), that educations impact on fragile, stunted, and scared youth, and our unwillingness to actually bother with those two issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are aware of the study showing that more Americans support the targeting of innocent civilians than Muslims do,right?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are aware that said study poses the question of innocent civilians during military action (so called "collateral damage") as opposed to general attacks purposefully targeting a civilian population (aka terrorism) right?

And yes, I would say that's certainly a negative for all involved that I think reflects public opinion in the US as to the inevitablity of civilian casualties as well as too much faith in so called "smart" or in general highly accurate munitions and tactics to at the very least limit noncombatant casualties.

Im not the one arguing that innocent deaths in some ambiguous conflict are the same as specifically targeting a civilian population... you seem to be in an attempt to refute claims specific to the support of terrorism (the polls Im talking about reference Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and the concept of suicide bombing in general).

[JackWhite]

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I need some input here.

The 2 cars filled with Nails and gasoline they found in london UNDETONATEED. They are saying Al-Quida crapheads are most likely responsible.

Why would they do it. It makes no sense.

England just got a new prime minister that says he does not want his country to be the U.S's bitch anymore.

Al-Crapida could have used this for propoganda saying they are really winning the war in Iraq and that the Brits are definiatly the next to leave Iraq. And that they are chasing them away.

The prime minister makes a pretty good speech against being the U.S.'s bitch and WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.


OMG 2 car bombs THAT DID NOT GO OFF and must have been Al-Crapida.


Nothing says let's get back into the war on terror like a plot against your home city.

This sounds more like a government plot by someone other than an Al-Crapida attack.

All these Arabs do is make bombs and they could not set them off.

I hate conspiracy theorys but this whole thing stinks to the high heaven.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see the Brits back into the war on radical islam but not by shady government plots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering today's attack in Scotland, I seriously doubt both of these recent attacks are government plots. It will be interesting to hear the names, motives, backgrounds of those responsible for today's attack.

[The once and future king]

You have allready bought into a conspiracy theory.

The one where Al queda is a well co-ordinated group of integrated terrorists all marching to the beat of Osama's master plan.

In reality "they" (if there even is a they) are just a bunch of random mostly amateurish cells that dont have much if any integration and get most of their ideas of the interweb.

In that light this event makes perfect sense.

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
I need some input here.

The 2 cars filled with Nails and gasoline they found in london UNDETONATEED. They are saying Al-Quida crapheads are most likely responsible.

Why would they do it. It makes no sense.


[/ QUOTE ]

For years Al-Qaeda has been trying to attack the UK...and you're saying that you doubt al-Qaeda is behind this because "it doesn't make sense." Well, I don't really see why not.

It's been a while since the train bombings, and there have been thwarted attempts in the meantime. My guess is that this is one attempt that nearly got lucky enough to get through.

The car was smoking, correct? It sounds to me like the fuse may have been lit but detonation had not yet occurred when the ambulance driver spotted the smoke and called the police. I haven't caught up on the latest news though.

[John Kilduff]

[ QUOTE ]
You have allready bought into a conspiracy theory.

The one where Al queda is a well co-ordinated group of integrated terrorists all marching to the beat of Osama's master plan.

In reality "they" (if there even is a they) are just a bunch of random mostly amateurish cells that dont have much if any integration and get most of their ideas of the interweb.

In that light this event makes perfect sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

BINGO!

[HeavilyArmed]

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lol
or,

It turns out they don't just attack us for being involved in their region, they attack us because they don't like our way of living and our lack of religion.

What a surprise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost. They wish to quarintine or sterilize the open sewer that passes for Western culture. Can't say that I blame them for their desire. Their action leave a bit to be desired though.

[JackWhite]

Here is an interesting theory from the Sun. The recent attacks were a response to the knighting of Salman Rushdie.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/artic...hood/article.do

Another important question raised by this article: How did Rushdie get that young hottie?

[AlexM]

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lol
or,

It turns out they don't just attack us for being involved in their region, they attack us because they don't like our way of living and our religion.

What a surprise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm... the UK is involved in their region too...

Let me know when they bomb Hong Kong.

[Taso]

Alex - the newly elected Prime Minister just made a speech against the US and all that, and it seems that the UK is going to be leaving Iraq...Why would they attack the UK after all this became obvious? Just to say "well actually, we preferred you in our country..."

I think Rearden's post are pretty damn valid.