Immigration Bill, Part 2

[HeavilyArmed]

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Get yourself a little real world color. Find out how browm illegal aliens are treated after a DUI arrest.

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Illegal immigrants compose 4% of our prison population but 3% of our overall population. Link

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So what exactly can one infer from these statistics? If illegal aliens are twice as likely to commit crimes then what? You have only one side of an equation here.

I already know that there are cohorts in America that commit 5 times as many violent crimes as the average. Why would you assume illegal aliens are more law abiding than black American citizens? Need confirmation of this? Google FBI.

Again, what exactly can one infer from these statistics? I infer you're looking for an easy answer to an obviously troubling problem.

[Olof]

[govman6767]

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Deleted

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Your Wrong it's that simple. These people are not being hired because they are lazy no matter what bull propoganda your reading.

[NeBlis]

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Your Wrong it's that simple. These people are not being hired because they are lazy no matter what bull propoganda your reading.



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Govman I'm begining to love the new you.

[John Kilduff]

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Placing allegiance to your ethnicity above allegiance to America does equal disloyalty to America.

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Your standard for judging whether or not someone is "loyal to America" is whether or not they support tougher immigration standards and/or enforcement of the current laws.

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Not quite, but maybe I should rethink my standard.


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I've rethought my standard, and you may find it surprising. Heck, even I find it a bit surprising.

Here are my thoughts:

I think that any citizen, regardless of ethnicity, not supporting enforcement of existing immigration laws is being disloyal to America.

America is not just a concept, as Bush and the Neo-Cons would have us believe. America is an actual place with an actual history and traditions. There exists an actual population of Americans. If there is no restraint on immigration whatsoever, my prediction is that America will eventually cease to exist. Not only will America become increasingly balkanized if there is no restraint on immigration, but if unlimited immigration overwhelms society, many of the new arrivals won't share American values such as free speech, freedom of religious expression, etc. Laws such as we have supporting civil rights will be undermined even faster than are being undermined now by our own politicians and courts. It's going to be hard to sustain the Constitution and Bill of Rights even with the politicians and significantly apathetic populace we've got; how much harder will it be to sustain those vital foundations of America with increasing demographics of people who have never heard or cared about the Bill of Rights?

To have and keep a country with historically-based laws and traditions, including the very important modern traditions of human and civil rights, a country must have controllable borders. Without majority support for the Constitution and Bill of Rights, the country will be dead as America. It will be some other country if that transpires. It's already alarming enough that many politicians today appear not to believe in the Bill of Rights, and that many people don't care as their precious freedoms are being eroded. The last step to deconstructing America will be the influx of vast numbers of foreigners who don't share those American values such as enshrined in the Bill of Rights. Then the Constitution and Bill of Rights, long under assault from various indigenous political forces within our own country, will crumble under the additional assault of tens of millions of imported voters who have no interest in protecting the Bill of Rights and are more interested in furthering their own interests, which interests may often be group driven. It is not looked down upon in many countries to openly place the interests of one's own ethnic group first. That is perfectly OK in countries such as Mexico and even Japan. Policies that would be considered highly racist in America are openly supported and practiced in many countries around the world today.

Regarding the recently defeated immigration bill, I think it would be likely to encourage more illegal immigration by virtue of the sort of amnesty it would have offered. The enforcement provisions would probably not be very effective (and I'm unclear what would). So, do I think the Bush's support for that bill is disloyal to America? Yes! While I think the ACists or Libertarian advocates of open borders are merely disloyal because they don't understand that if they import vast numbers of people who don't believe in Acism or Libertarianism, they won't have that anymore (presuming they ever were to achieve it in the first place), Bush and Kennedy and the other politicians sidehandedly favoring illegal immigration are in positions of great political power. For them to be thus disloyal to America is nearly treasonous. I won't impugn their motives by saying it actually is treasonous, but IMO it's definitely disloyal and misguided, and I'll add irresponsible as well.

On a last note, I've met many immigrants, illegal and otherwise, who were great persons. The country can't handle unlimited tens of millions more, though, and if that happens, in my opinion, America will be well on its way to ceasing to be America.

To tie back in with the earlier point, I do think immigrants being in favor of illegal immigration are being disloyal to America. But they're not the only ones.

Thanks to everyone for reading, and for your thoughts.

[kidpokeher]

Kilduff, FWIW I think your arguments are convincing and quite level-headed, especially considering the attacks you've been getting.

[John Kilduff]

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Kilduff, FWIW I think your arguments are convincing and quite level-headed, especially considering the attacks you've been getting.

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Thank you very much.