Public apology to DAC- His account has been cleared.

[aiYenta]

This is ridiculous. This is exactly what they did when they accused bobcards and to lesser extent, erik123, of cheating AND stealing from them.

They handled it in the exact same way, except they threatened over the phone taunting in the same unprofessional manner as done in this forum.

There were two seperate incendents, but the most egregious was when bobcards was accused of hacking their online blackjack. It is ironic how much money he has lost in his life 'jacking' that WSEX did this to him





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I agree that the outcome was satisfactory. However it was botched by WSEX along the way. Why did the OP have to air out this issue on a public forum in order to receive a fair investigation?

If he had of continued to deal directly with support he would have never received his money. Once communication was initiated the issue was resolved relatively quickly. Why could this have not been done when he initially contacted support? It never should have escalated to this level.

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I agree. I cant believe everyone is praising Fred. He started off assuming that DAC was using a bot and that his money was not being returned to him.

Apologizing does nothing for me. But that is why I never play there nor will I ever.

Is this what it has come down too? You have a problem with a site and your only recourse is to post about it in a public forum just to get your case investigated? BS

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[justin]

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respect WSEX for coming back so quickly and apologizing for their screw-up.

However, a couple of things don't really sit right with me:

1) The WSEX GM's dismissive attitude when originally replying to DAC. He was so sure of the effectiveness of their "new tools" that there wasn't a doubt in his mind that DAC was guilty. How many other players had their funds taken due to these "false positives" with the new tools? How many of them have since had their money returned?

2) If it wasn't for 2+2, would DAC have gotten his money back? He wasn't getting anywhere with WSEX's customer service, and had been told that their decision was final. If it wasn't for the bad press that WSEX was getting on here, would they have bothered to follow-up with DAC? After all, they were doing absolutely nothing for him until he complained on here.

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[MR EPI]

I had played at least 5000 hands with him and I always thought he was a bot. There are like two accounts there that I know are bots. This was one of them. irri is other one. But dac was def not legit.

[MR EPI]

i played with dac. He was always suspect to me. He was one of 3 players that I thought were not legit. I have over 5000 hands with him. If you never played against him you cant make judgments. I think he was a bot. but my opinion. So if you never played him you cant make comments. I have over 2,000,000 hands I have played in last 3+ years, and his play was one of the only ones that struck me odd. Along with irri.

[fraac]

If three players from 2 million hands struck you as odd, maybe they are the only humans?

[swingdoc]

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I had played at least 5000 hands with him and I always thought he was a bot. There are like two accounts there that I know are bots. This was one of them. irri is other one. But dac was def not legit.

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i played with dac. He was always suspect to me. He was one of 3 players that I thought were not legit. I have over 5000 hands with him. If you never played against him you cant make judgments. I think he was a bot. but my opinion. So if you never played him you cant make comments. I have over 2,000,000 hands I have played in last 3+ years, and his play was one of the only ones that struck me odd. Along with irri.

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Wtf is this? Bot responses? Or am I being levelled? If not, you are complete and utter asshat, Mr Epi.

I'm just appalled at the process that such investigations take. Site suspects someone of cheating. Site freezes account. Two higher ups take a look at whatever evidence is available and say 'yup, looks like cheatin to me'. Site does not contact suspect until decision is final... Allowing DAC or anyone else the opportunity to respond to the allegations during the "investigation" phase of this makes about a million times more sense.

Yes, congrats on handling this quickly WPEX, God knows i wish our government could handle their screw ups similarly. Minus 38 for having such a [censored] procedure that mistakes are not caught early and require the use of 2p2. Until you further clarify your T&C to specify procedure for suspected cheaters and EXACTLY which programs are disallowed, (I still have no idea if I can use a HUD) then I'll just keep my money elsewhere.

[[Phill]]

Good to see a major site coming on here to admit their bot detecting software doesnt work properly.

Awesome.

[albedoa]

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it's disturbing the guy would have been sol without posting on 2p2.

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Exactly. That's what scares me. Please remember the initial response from WSEX:

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it was decided that the decision is final.

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That sounds pretty final to me. It seems as though the only reason it was looked into further was because the issue was made public.

[CybrPunk]

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Alot of you are coming down way too hard on WSEX.

Obviously if the guy was innocent, as it seems he was, he is entitled to his money, which he is getting.

Sites being proactive about bots/collusion is a great thing for all players. These types of things are going to happen and the fact they can fess up to it and hopefully make improvements in the futre is a good thing.

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I agree with your statements but another argument could be raised here. When it comes to research and development of new security tools, their security personnel should be more diligent in obtaining and testing tools that are readily available for download themselves. AHK is a widely used application and easily available. If WPEX had done a better job of implementing their security tools, specifically testing a wider spectrum of software themselves, then these issues would not be as much of a concern. The GM seemed fairly certain that false positives are rare with their system yet that did not turn out to be the case here. Hopefully this is a good indication to the GM that their new security tools need some more testing.

Kudos to them for getting on the right path but there's obviously still a lot of work to be done here. Any good security system involves thorough 'penetration testing' and it appears to me that's a step that WPEX skipped.

[frommagio]

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respect WSEX for coming back so quickly and apologizing for their screw-up.

However, a couple of things don't really sit right with me:

1) The WSEX GM's dismissive attitude when originally replying to DAC. He was so sure of the effectiveness of their "new tools" that there wasn't a doubt in his mind that DAC was guilty. How many other players had their funds taken due to these "false positives" with the new tools? How many of them have since had their money returned?

2) If it wasn't for 2+2, would DAC have gotten his money back? He wasn't getting anywhere with WSEX's customer service, and had been told that their decision was final. If it wasn't for the bad press that WSEX was getting on here, would they have bothered to follow-up with DAC? After all, they were doing absolutely nothing for him until he complained on here.

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I too have a problem with their attitude. However, it seems to me that a "watch and wait" position seems to be in order. WSEX seems to have earned that chance so far.

From my perspective, this is the first crack in the dike for WSEX - but I'm very willing to keep an open mind, and WSEX deserves at least that much. So far they seem to be totally above board, and I also like the handling of this situation - a quick public apology once they figured out that they were wrong. Anybody can screw up; the question is, what do you do afterwards?

Preliminary indications are that WSEX will listen, that they can learn a lesson, and that they want to improve. That puts them far, far ahead of FTP (for example) in terms of integrity and respect for their customers. Hell, even Stars shut down somebody's grandma (suspected multitabling microlimits with robots!!). Everybody screws up.

We need to keep watching these sites. I realize that this is online poker, and that our selections are very scarce. But it won't always be that way, and we need to take a stand as consumers. We should never be willing to accept less than we would from any other legitimate business just because we crave the product. Let's encourage WSEX to stay one the right path, and let's not patronize the riffraff.