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  #11  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:17 PM
Cueballmania Cueballmania is offline
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Default Re: 50NL AK hits top pair - funky reraise from villain on river

[ QUOTE ]
Meh, I think you miss value by not betting more on that flop. These missed 0.50 opportunities add up after after a good sample size.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you try to build bigger pots with one pair hands, it's likely to bite you in the butt later. If you knew his calling range was the same for either bet, sure, go for the bigger one. But at some of the higher games, betting becomes more of a function of flop texture than a function of your holdings.
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  #12  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:25 PM
dlorc dlorc is offline
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Default Re: 50NL AK hits top pair - funky reraise from villain on river

I think the flop bet is fine, its around my normal cbet of 1/2 to 2/3rd pot and its really tough for him to fold a weak king there - really I just want to vbet the whole way.

Again I think $7 on the turn scares him away or forces him to choose push/fold.

We're still betting for value here so again our bet sizing could be a second barrel from the PFR w/ AQ /AJ and I think he has to call a lot of tens/kings here as I probably do double barrel a wide range ( he's seen me do it with eg 9's on a similar board ).

I'm not sure about pf - I did raise it to 8bb, no limpers just the CO raise that is probably a weaker hand.

Is 9bb preflop there really going to avoid this river situation?
I suppose it does let me bet a little more on the flop/turn in relation to pot size but I don't think it forces this guy out for an extra ~$1-2 over the pre-river streets, nor do we necessarily want him out. We want him to call down with a worse hand here. We just need to be able to get away if he draws out.

I definately agree that his river reraise range is not a bluffraise very often he's not bluffing with a worse hand more than 20% of the time so its a clear fold.

I did suck it up and call on the end and he turned over Ks Js.

I think I really failed to take into account his river bluffraise % and donked off there - it should have been a fold although it is a tough one to make.
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  #13  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:30 PM
vixticator vixticator is offline
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Default Re: 50NL AK hits top pair - funky reraise from villain on river

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop bet is fine, its around my normal cbet of 1/2 to 2/3rd pot and its really tough for him to fold a weak king there - really I just want to vbet the whole way.

Again I think $7 on the turn scares him away or forces him to choose push/fold.

[/ QUOTE ]Alright, I see the reasoning behind flop bet. Opponent specific I assume? But on the turn with that dry of a flop you KNOW he has part of it or some underpair that he didn't fold. Unless you have reason to suspect he can read hands or get away from poor kickers, these kind of stats strongly suggest no to me, bet more for value now that you know apporx what he has.
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:37 PM
mephisto mephisto is offline
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Default Re: 50NL AK hits top pair - funky reraise from villain on river

Well dlorc, the benefit/problem with betting half pot poker is that you really give odds for hands that you have beat to stay in the hand for a lot longer than I would have. But this is a double edge sword because you also give villain odds to draw out on you on turn and river.

As you played it, I would have definitely have shut down on the river and checked/called a reasonable bet.

As for cueball, I don't play huge pots on 1 pair hands either, but by betting a little higher on flop and turn, it helps me define my hand a lot more easily and if they play back hard, I can throw my hand away. Playing half pot poker doesn't really define ranges all that much imo and therefore puts you in more awkward spots more often.

Regarding the flop bet size, $3 is my standard cbet, I don't varry it, just my style. I agree with cueball that with this flop texture, betting $2.5 vs $3.00 doesn't make a huge difference.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:39 PM
dlorc dlorc is offline
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Default Re: 50NL AK hits top pair - funky reraise from villain on river

Ya I think I underbet the turn a little, $5.5-6 is probably good here.


Given reads ( I have this hand on vid and was talking through it at the time - I actually put him on KJ on the turn...and bet/called anyway /vomit ), what do we think is the optimal river line assuming some margin for error in reads?

Check/call, check/fold, smaller bet/fold ?
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:44 PM
mephisto mephisto is offline
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Default Re: 50NL AK hits top pair - funky reraise from villain on river

It's close between check/fold and check/call, depends on the player/reads/flow of the game.
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