The Official NBA Regular Season 07-08 Thread

[Aces McGee]

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Kobe has an incredibly pretty shot when it's going in, but he has shot a lower percentage from the field than LBJ for his career. The big edge for Kobe is that he doesn't take nearly as much time off(again a coaching issue) and the even more direct coaching issue, he doesn't have Mike Brown drawing up "Kobe, what we're going to do is have you dribble 35 feet away from the basket. Then we'll send a big guy to set a halfassed screen 30 feet away from the basket. ???. Points. Got it? Break!" as the only offensive play in the playbook

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You're confused. Doc Rivers doesn't coach the Cavs.

-McGee

[kidcolin]

OK change of topic. In Hollinger's recent "surprises" article, he mentions the Celtics leading the league in defensive efficiency. As some are probably aware, the Cs hired Tom Thibodeau, a highly lauded asst to Jeff Van Gollum. He's known for his defense. What I didn't know was this:

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Boston wasn't the only team to hire him this summer -- Thibodeau originally went to Washington, but quit the Wizards after four days when he discovered coach Eddie Jordan and GM Ernie Grunfeld weren't on the same page, or even in the same book.

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For some reason I love seeing the Wiz struggling. Maybe because their name is the Wizards. Either way, peace out Arenas.

[FlyWf]

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So it's OK for you to use a TWO GAME SAMPLE but it's not OK for me to cite the much larger sample size that is how they fared against WC contenders?


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No, it's not OK. That's the point.

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What's more, the two Spurs wins came in the second game of the season and on January 2nd, both well before the Spurs' second half surge.


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This is exactly what I was talking about. Not content to merely pretend that a bunch of games don't matter, you are further squeezing some endpoints and massaging some data. Assani would be proud.

Is there any chance in hell you'd include Denver in your little tally there if the Cavs had swept the season series?

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But how they do against good teams is far more relevant than how they do against crappy ones.


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Do you have some evidence that Lebron's skillset is uniquely suited to only beat bad teams? No? Games against bad teams count just the same in the standings and losing to bad teams is certainly not "irrelevant" to team evaluation.

If the West was really OMGBBQWTF so much better than the East, the Cavs wouldn't be able to beat up on the bad Western teams because the bad Western teams would be mediocre Eastern teams, right?

So now we've revised our argument down from "they luckboxed their way and then had their eyes opened up to the West" to "The Spurs were really good", which nobody disputed.

[Victor]

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Lebronikova refers to the way he seems to mail it in, like, I dunno, last night. It's been mentioned already, but on exact same fastbreak plays, Melo put Bron on his ass, whereas Bron was content to just let Melo go dunk (though Devin Brown outhustled him to give the foul). I'm not really sure I blame him, given how bad his teammates and (especially) coach are, but everything else being somewhat equal, Kobe's all the time competitiveness gives him a clear edge. And I [censored] HATE Kobe.

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look, if you say kobe is more competitive and mentally tough than lebron thats fine. im not gonna argue. i would hope he is since hes been in the league for 7 more years and is 7 years older.

i just dont understand the lbj criticism in the absolute sense. he simply is extremely competitive and mentally tough. he is the most fouled player in the league, they just dont call half of them.

he does whine too much at refs and should shoot better fts. he has a way to go but he puts up with more pressure than anyone minus maybe kobe.

so lebron had a bad game vs denver. everyone does. heres the thing: it was the last game of a 6 game west coast trip. 6 road games in 9 days and they had played the night before in la. and less than a month ago they were in china.

[BobboFitos]

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Do you guys think that if the Lakers were in the East last year they would have gone to the Finals?

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Yes

[tuq]

Fly,

Regarding Denver, their chances of winning were fairly remote but not impossible, which they were for GSW and the Lakers. They played the Spurs tough in the first round series and get past Phoenix and they have a pretty even matchup against the Jazz. The fact is when the playoffs started they were most certainly considered a team that could go somewhere.

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Games against bad teams count just the same in the standings and losing to bad teams is certainly not "irrelevant" to team evaluation.

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Here's a newsflash: they don't play bad teams in the playoffs. Well in the east they do in the first and sometimes second rounds, but generally playoff teams are good. Thus I would think that results against playoff-caliber teams are more relevant than how they do against the Grizzlies of the league. Are you really giving roughly the same weight to a win or loss against Portland as a win or loss against Dallas?

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If the West was really OMGBBQWTF so much better than the East, the Cavs wouldn't be able to beat up on the bad Western teams because the bad Western teams would be mediocre Eastern teams, right?

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Are you being serious? The following WC teams were clearly better or as good as Cleveland last year:

1. Dallas
2. San Antonio
3. Phoenix
4. Houston
5. Utah
6. Denver (finished the season 16-6 in their last 22)

THAT is why the WC was WAY better than the EC, it has nothing to do with the quality of the bottom-feeders.

[BobboFitos]

BTW, move this to a new thread, kobe vs lbj is a beyond stupid argument, since they're both top 5. lets argue who is better, mike miller or mike redd

[BobboFitos]

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If the West was really OMGBBQWTF so much better than the East, the Cavs wouldn't be able to beat up on the bad Western teams because the bad Western teams would be mediocre Eastern teams, right?

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Are you being serious? The following WC teams were clearly better or as good as Cleveland last year:

1. Dallas
2. San Antonio
3. Phoenix
4. Houston
5. Utah
6. Denver (finished the season 16-6 in their last 22)

THAT is why the WC was WAY better than the EC, it has nothing to do with the quality of the bottom-feeders.

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Good post, same like this year; the east is not shallow, but not top heavy. (only 1 real good team in the celtics, then a dropoff; in the west the top 6 are all quite good, and the hornets/warriors/lakers are the equivalent of the 2nd tier in the east)

[tuq]

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Not content to merely pretend that a bunch of games don't matter, you are further squeezing some endpoints and massaging some data. Assani would be proud.

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Also, regarding this - makes no sense. For many reasons games in April are more indicative of future playoff performance than games in November. Injuries, cohesion, setting the rotation, player growth and development, and playing with urgency (or lack thereof) as it pertains to seeding and home court advantage are some that come immediately to mind.

It's true that they count the same in the standings, but what happened in November means little else other than how it affects the W-L column. Both wins against the Spurs came by January 2nd, more than five months before they would meet again. Hell yes I apply less value to those games than if it was later in the year.

[kidcolin]

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Do you guys think that if the Lakers were in the East last year they would have gone to the Finals?

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Yes

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I don't. The Cavs were pretty underrated in terms of support talent. Sure it wasn't that great, since their backcourt was attrocious, but a frontcourt that includes Lebron, Z, Gooden, and Varejao is very good.