Blind Defense Flop Decision

[uDevil]

There's an ongoing discussion regarding this situation. If you are interested, please vote in the poll before clicking the link: Discussion.

Suppose you are the big blind in a short-handed game, it is raised by an aggressive player, and you call. You have the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the flop is A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

[johnnylovescandy]

c/x...

[Fnord]

What do you mean by "aggressive"? Do you mean aggro monkey who will raise 75%+ of his hands on the button and bet every street, or do you mean someone like us who will raise 40% and play post-flop reasonably well?

[uDevil]

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What do you mean by "aggressive"? Do you mean aggro monkey who will raise 75%+ of his hands on the button and bet every street, or do you mean someone like us who will raise 40% and play post-flop reasonably well?

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In the article under discussion, this isn't specified, but I don't think we're talking about a maniac. I guess that's less like the monkey and more like you. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: The article does say we can expect him to bet the flop every time if we check the flop.

[James.]

was the pfr on the button/CO/HJ?

i sometimes 3bet QT pf against some REALLY aggro opponents' ranges(or less aggro if they can fold postflop). of course there are specific circumstances that dictate this(my image, villains' tendencies, etc.). it's not an auto3bet, but to slow him down i often begin 3betting lighter in SH games if an opponent is getting overzealous with his steal attempts.

as for the flop, i usually at least check/call.

some reasonable portion of the time i donk(because i mix alot of flop donking into my overall strategy in SH situations). being OOP HU has a nice benefit. you have the right of first bluff. this, combined with liberally 3betting pf, will have the tendency of thwarting the "automatic profit" that opponents would gain through more straightforward play(i.e. c/f when we have nothing). remember, that ace should be a scary card for you and betting into an aggressive pfr who respects you shows some strength. especially if you b/3b frequently w/good hands. it can make it pretty tough for a hand like KQ or 55 or whatever to call.

following this strategy you lose a little more sometimes, you win a little more sometimes(which balance out) but you have the ancillary effect of slowing this opponent down pf. it's a tremendous benefit when he has position on you quite frequently as he will in the shorthanded games.

fwiw, i'll throw in a c/r against some guys on occasion as well. but again, my image should be pretty solid or nitty and they need to be capable of folding pf.

[uDevil]

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was the pfr on the button/CO/HJ?

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This wasn't specified in Mason's article.

Check-calling is the suggested play in the article, but most of the posters in the linked thread disagree. If you check-call, what is your reasoning and plan for the rest of the hand?

[Ricks]

This hand is an 80:20 dog to a top 30% hand range and almost 75:25 to the top 40%.

[uDevil]

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This hand is an 80:20 dog to a top 30% hand range and almost 75:25 to the top 40%.

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So if we would be all-in, then calling would be better than folding, since we're getting 5.5-1 to call. But...

[Ricks]

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This hand is an 80:20 dog to a top 30% hand range and almost 75:25 to the top 40%.

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So if we would be all-in, then calling would be better than folding, since we're getting 5.5-1 to call. But...

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Assuming a 29% CO steal range of: 22+,A2s+,K5s+,Q9s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,87s,76s,A5o+,K9o +,QTo+

We have at most a five out hand and our pair outs are almost worthless the times he has an ace or other dominating hand, which includes more than a third of his hand range. When we do not hit anything on the turn we can't possibly continue when he bets, even when ahead. Actually, we can only be ahead of a tiny portion of his range.

I would only consider continuing in these situations if an ace, or possibly a king, does not come on the flop but I would also have to be open to the idea that I could be wrong when a player such as Mason Malmuth disagrees.

[James.]

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If you check-call, what is your reasoning and plan for the rest of the hand?

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as stated my style of play differs from typical 2p2, grrr, c/r alot of flops w/ alot of hands. OOP i donk into PFR pretty frequently. i stated i would c/c with that holding sometimes so i'll give some reasons.

a)we have as many as 9-12 cards on the turn that will induce us to continue in the hand. our pairs(for me) are an auto calldown. a Jack is an auto turn call. a King depends on how good we estimate our pair outs to be.

b)we get a free card on the turn the times our flop call scares villain to check the turn through. getting to the river for one sb is huge in this situation. i think this is an aspect that some people may be overlooking.

c)c/c, c/r line is very often a monster hand. we can use the semibluff as a powerful weapon some of the times we pick up a strong draw(such as a Jack for the OESD).

d)we peel flops, we force him to a tougher decision both now and in the future steal situations. it's going to result in his checking the flop through more often, the turn through more often, or having to bluff more often. regardless, it will make it difficult for him to balance his frequencies optimally(assuming we have an edge postflop). this is also to our advantage.

thing about these spots, we are playing in a manner that is influencing future action as much as current action. you need to understand that.

i've left out very specific information about our image and our opponents' tendencies that might influence the decision one way or another. i've assumed our image is solid and our opponent is generally too aggressive.