Optimal Strategy - Changing?

[maca9]

Hi all

Maybe its just the tables i've played at these last few weeks, but it seems as though the level of play is improving. Even at low levels. $6 STT etc.

With the quality of the information such as 2+2 and others sources I'm sure this makes sense.

My question for the forum is this?

As players improve as a whole and people play poker more in line with advice provided on site such as 2+2 and good quality poker books will that mean?

a) That optimal strategy will change to accomodate this. By that i mean that the winning players will have moved on from what is currently thought of as "optimal" strategy and will be playing in a way which exploits currently perceived best strategy?

OR

b) Optimal strategy won't change at all BUT the games will simply be harder to beat and a persons results will more closely reflect the cards they are dealt in any particular period as the skill levels become closer.


Very interested in thoughts.

I'm sure its neither a or b.............but probably aspects of both. I'm just interested because I'm sure the veterens have seen the impact over the last few years?

[Zefa]

Optimal strategy won't really change that much as the basic SNG strategy lies mostly in the push fold stages and the only adjustments that will occur will really be pushing and calling ranges.

Currently the optimal strategy involves pushing fairly wide and therefore people may change up their game slightly to call down a fairly wide range as well. In response to this people will tighten up in their pushing ranges after getting called and seeing this, the callers will tighten up their pushing ranges and the cycle starts over again.

Of course there lies other factors such as playing looser in early game since today's standard "optimal" strategy is mostly playing tight early game and loose play takes advantage of a tighter table but again this can follow the same cycle as above so really strategy doesn't deviate away too much from the norm.

It is possible that eventually all the players will play at a near optimal level and that is when your ROI will start dropping towards levels of near break even.

The optimal strategy here would be a change in metagame such as moving to multi table sngs or mtts or cash or quitting poker =D.

[HajiShirazu]

SNG's are easy to learn and the rake is tough to beat if you are at a table of decent players. Even against fish, how much of an edge can you really get in 60 hands? What will happen is that people will quit SNG's and move to cash, or move to 6max SNG's which take more skill.

[donkeykong2]

in the early stage the optimal strategy definitely should change somehow if you re playing morons instead of good players or vice versa.

[Pokerpun]

I am interested in why you think 6 table SNGs have more skill? My experience is that my ROI is less in 6 handed SNGs than 10/9 Handed, if anything I find the results more random in 6 handed SNGs but maybe I am missing something.

[ QUOTE ]
SNG's are easy to learn and the rake is tough to beat if you are at a table of decent players. Even against fish, how much of an edge can you really get in 60 hands? What will happen is that people will quit SNG's and move to cash, or move to 6max SNG's which take more skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Kevin8423]

It won't change whatsoever. "Optimal strategy" uses pushing and calling ranges to determine the correct play, so it isn't affected at all by games that are getting harder. Without playing for the past month or two since I switched to cash I'm fairly certain the games are not getting harder and if anything probably softening back up since the legislation. Variance likely has a much greater effect than you are thinking.

[ QUOTE ]
It is possible that eventually all the players will play at a near optimal level and that is when your ROI will start dropping towards levels of near break even.

[/ QUOTE ]

This will never happen.

[IFoldPktOnes]

I agree with Kevin optimal strategy means unexploitable strategy and is the same regardless of your opponents. I play exploitative strategy since the people I play against suck and will continue to do so. There is more poor strategy advice available to players than there is good, and the donks can't tell the difference.

[maca9]

Thanks for the replies!! Really interesting.

The main reason I felt like the games were improving was because players seemed MUCH tighter in early stages. Blinds were at 150 or higher and no one had gone out yet.

This seemed different to a few months ago.

But again.......maybe I just struck a table of slightly more astute players those few times.

Thanks again for comments

[Zefa]

[ QUOTE ]
It won't change whatsoever. "Optimal strategy" uses pushing and calling ranges to determine the correct play, so it isn't affected at all by games that are getting harder. Without playing for the past month or two since I switched to cash I'm fairly certain the games are not getting harder and if anything probably softening back up since the legislation. Variance likely has a much greater effect than you are thinking.

[ QUOTE ]
It is possible that eventually all the players will play at a near optimal level and that is when your ROI will start dropping towards levels of near break even.

[/ QUOTE ]

This will never happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

How so?

Obviously there are lots of fish out there and will be for a very long time but at higher stakes if all the players in a sit and go know ICM and push fold extremely well, then they pretty much have no edge against each other and the rake will win. If everyone plays optimally, then no one is winning.

Obviously this is possible as I stated but very unlikely that everyone will play this way.

[donkeykong2]

the good players will quit if the games profitability goes below a certain level.