Please allow me to introduce myself

[Skallagrim]

I dont really think you can expect the PPA to have a staffer who follows every legislative bill introduced in every state in order to find the ones that affect poker.

The PPA, just like any other advocacy organization, is going to have rely on the media (bad choice) or its members (perfect choice) to find out these things. Its how the PPA responds that will tell whether its is becoming a truly effective org.

As to the Mass. issue being first presented here on 2+2, ISNT THAT WHY WE COME AND POST TO 2+2 IN THE FIRST PLACE? Sort of like the AP scandal, posters here noticed something amiss, looked further, and alerted the rest of us and action was begun. This is how the information age works.

The PPA was always DC focused before, but is now (finally) branching out - the DC focus is important, but so is responding to state issues. So far so good PPA, at least this time around.

I really cant see how changing the board (which I am still neutral about) would have made any difference here.

Skallagrim

[TheEngineer]

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Look at Mass. It came up and I was asked to get PPA involved. I immediately contacted John Pappas and Randy C. Then, thanks to Randy's hard work, we had an organized campaign within a few days.

Don't assume they know already....if you want it, let me know (preferably via PM).

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This is a pretty good argument in support of Mason's position. Regular players have a better idea of what's happening than the PPA Board. That is exactly the opposite of how it should be. I wonder how many Board members besides Engineer know about the Florida situation. It has been talked about here for months and months yet the PPA has not seen fit to do anything to influence the compast that is about to screw Florida poker players.

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Thanks for your comments. I should reiterate that I'm not a PPA apologist, nor am I the PPA rep here. I'm your rep to PPA.

The PPA Board is what it is. Pappas does run the show, and I've seen no evidence that he's not working 100% on our behalf. He definitely works very hard for us. If your main concern is input by PPA members, if want something specific from the PPA just PM me. You and any other 2+2 member will have more input than 80% of the board.

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I really want to support the PPA, but they need to step up and accomplish something tangible first.

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We did lose the HR 4411 vote in the House 317-93. Some think this should be easy to overcome, if only PPA would step up. I do think we have a tough struggle ahead for our rights, and I've seen tangible results. Not everyone thinks like we poker players do. I guess an issue here is that PPA needs to improve their communication. I've discussed this with John Pappas. Hopefully this will be improved.

[4_2_it]

Engineer,

I don't doubt that both you and Mr Pappas are sincere and are working very hard on our behalf. I think you have the right idea by coming to a forum populated by poker players and listening.

Let me explain my "Something Tangible" comment. Outside of the Washington Fly-in I can't think of one thing the PPA has done and I am on this board every day. Even if you point something out from 6 months ago, it has not resonated with me.

I do not yet associate the PPA with being the poker player's advocate like I associate Google with search engine or McDonald's with fast food or the NRA with the 2nd Amendment.

[DeadMoneyDad]

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Also, there have been many recent posts wondering why the PPA hasn't done specific things, often with a tone implying that they were incompetent for not having done so. I do concur that there were plenty of "sins of omission" in the past. The past is the past.

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But you must admit that some of the structural problems that lead to these "sins of omission" still exist today.

John is short of people, money, and time. The legacy of the "past" still affects "daily" life of the PPA today.

John identified one of the main causes and promised to address it imediately, communications. Yes steps have been taken to address this but even these have been hampered by the legacy of the past and the HQ move.

I know of some decisions and can imagine the number of confrence calls many of the ones I know nothing about must generate. I know from the Fly-in conversations that many of the ideas from the members are indeed fully discussed and considered. However communicating the decisions reached and reasons back to the author or larger community has been lacking. Given the nature of a political group, this is a very difficult process to balance, I know from experience.

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We have a process in place now that no one seems to be using. I speak with John Pappas weekly and communicate with him via email almost daily. If you need anything from the PPA, please let me know and I'll communicate it. Just PM me or email me. It's that simple. I'm not on the board to have something to talk about at parties. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I'm on the board to represent our interests and to fight for our rights. I have no other interests in the seat.

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Adding another private channel of communications isn't the answer, but I do appreciate you offering to take on this task. But as you can imagine this will only make the problem worse not better, no matter how hard you work at it.

I do not have a magic answer. Part of this falls on Bryan's plate as Manager of Mamber Relations, and from having spoken to him a number of times, I do feel that once he gets fully up to speed this will solve some of the issues.

IMO the PPA needs better communication at the State level. I imagine this is part of the job duties of the Grassroots position that hasn't yet been filled. But beyond that the grassroots person has to be able to provide the tools to the States to really build those networks.

I know the NRA is the model and it is a good thing to aspire to that groups sucess. But lets be honest, at this critical time we are a very long way from the NRA.

I've admitted often that the political clock in my head ticks much louder than most. You may feel it is a sign of insanity. You might be right. But I've been involved in too many efforts where at the end I wished I had just another week. So each week that goes by is very presious to me, because once past they are lost forever.

So my criticism has nothing to do with the capabilities of the people at the helm, unless you count their speed. I know there must be a few hundred issues I know nothing about with enough knowledge to speak confidently about that John must have to deal with on a weekly basis.

But I do think I know enough to have a decent grasp on the outline of the problem, enough to discuss it openly.

At the heart of the matter for many members and most non-members of the PPA haven't felt the organization has yet shown its worth. Given John's relative newness to the position, which the value of the defense deminishes daily, I know this perception is completely unfair. But it is a reality he does face.

The PPA counts it's members at something like one out of thirty potential members, in round numbers. That membership is completely untested, given that the majority are freeroll sign ups who's worth is unknown. Take Don from Chicago, he went to sign up and didn't know he was already a member! Through contact and some support from the PPA with a meaningful activity he perhaps is as valuable member in IL as the PPA has in Chicago.

In my experience it doesn't take much, but it does take the right mix of sales and concrete action to turn a pissed off citizen into a world class political advocate. IMO this is where the lack of time, money, and people are hurting the PPA the most.

Yes it is fair to say that John, Bryan, and even you TE are doing all you can do to the best of your ability. But right now for what needs to be done, IMO, that just isn't enough to get where we need to be. IMO there is a vast resovior of untapped talent and resources just waiting to be given the opportunity. I've seen it in every endevor I've every been involved in in my life.

So please take this in the true spirit it is intended. I know you all are working your hearts out. That isn't the problem.

I don't buy completely the notion that there is "unseen" hands at work retarding the potential of the PPA. But the lack of concrete actions and poor communication feeds this misconception on a daily basis.

You all have a right to get a little defensive to critism, I know I would if I were in your position. But you have to look at it from both inside and outside. I'm sorry to say that for sometime in the future every "sin of omission" will be magnified and continued miscommunication will continue to feed the notion of "other forces at work."


D$D

[TheEngineer]

[ QUOTE ]
Engineer,

I don't doubt that both you and Mr Pappas are sincere and are working very hard on our behalf. I think you have the right idea by coming to a forum populated by poker players and listening.

Let me explain my "Something Tangible" comment. Outside of the Washington Fly-in I can't think of one thing the PPA has done and I am on this board every day. Even if you point something out from 6 months ago, it has not resonated with me.

I do not yet associate the PPA with being the poker player's advocate like I associate Google with search engine or McDonald's with fast food or the NRA with the 2nd Amendment.

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Good comments, as always. PPA has been primarily focused on Congressional lobbying. They've actually excelled at that. We do have three bills out there, with good cosponsors, and the congressmen with whom I spoke all said the PPA lobby is very strong. The most tangible result at the federal level is the fact that no one has proposed a bill to strengthen or expand UIGEA.

Unfortunately, that work is out of the public eye. As PPA had very poor member communication prior to Pappas taking over (and it could still use improvement), this tangible work received even less credit than it should have.

PPA is starting to work more at the state level. This is belated, IMO, but it is occuring. For example, Lee Rousso of WA, Randy C. of Mass, and I (KY) are very active in our respective states. Many other state directors whom I met at the Fly-In are very capable and will do a great job if an issue comes up in their states.

There is work to be done. That's why I'm volunteering with PPA. I hope we'll all do our part to strengthen our position.

[JPFisher55]

I agree that the NRA is the model for the PPA. If Congress actually passed a law prohibiting citizens from using their credit cards, ewallets or other forms of payment to purchase firearms and prohibiting gun retailers from accepting such payment, does anyone doubt that the NRA would be in federal court the next day? Of course, the NRA has demonstrated such political power that it has blocked much less onerous legislation concerning firearms sales and ownership.
IMO if the PPA is to approach the effectiveness of the NRA, then it must, of course, increase its paying members and it must eventually undertake activities other than lobbying to accomplish its goals. However, I am impressed by the new management and I do intend to renew my membership ($25 level) this spring when it is up for renewal. IMO the board of directors is much less important than what the PPA does in the future.
TE or Bryan, just curious, how many dues paying members does the PPA have?

[Cactus Jack]

D$D, I think I have my facts exactly in order.

Those who voted for the bill in the House were doing so because they thought there was never going to be a vote in the Senate. They played political chicken and we lost. Most of the Democrats would never, ever vote for this if it was held today. They thought it was a dead or arrival issue.

Second, the climate in mid-2006 was very different than it is today. It appeared as if we were headed for the culmination of Rove's dream, or my nightmare, a fascist state. Democrats were in massive retreat. If anything, the UIGEA was one of the most visible signs that the neo-cons weere going too far.

Without Bill Frist's evil hand, the UIGEA would never have come up for a vote in the Senate. One man, one hundred votes, in this case. A complete corruption of the process. And notice the man is no longer in office or running for anything.

Go back over the posts here last year. No one thought this had any chance of happening, and it had no chance, except for Frist.

How long has the NRA been fighting a LOSING cause??? The vast majority of people in this country for tougher gun laws. The NRA has 3 million members in a country of 300 million people. They make a lot of noise for a group so small. And who do you guys think pay the bills for the NRA? Could it be S&W, Remington, Colt, etc? And how many overseas manufacturers?

I think we ought to stop knocking the PPA as it is, since it appears to be heading in the right direction. I'd like to see some more effort put into media relations and get the word out in the card rooms. The PPA shouldn't be only about the Internet.

The PPA is a relative newcomer. They are at least getting the national press to call for a quote, which is way ahead of where they were.

CJ

[Mason Malmuth]

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Mason has stated here that he wants wholeasale board resignations plus 2+2 LLC representation on the board. I don't think Bryan can do this.

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I have never stated that Two Plus Two LLC should have representation on the board. I have stated that I'm very uncomfortable with large affiliate banks having representation on the board, and since we are moving into that area it may not be proper for there to be a Two Plus Two board member.

I also have stated that I believe there needs to be changes made in their board but have only publicly called for the resignation of one board member although we would be happy with more chages than that.

Mason

[JPFisher55]

I am just curious. Why is it bad that the board of PPA consists mostly of industry representatives from affiliates or Cardplayer? Don't those type of companies have a huge stake in the legalization of online poker (or its confirmation as legal) including open access to foreign poker sites and establishment of domestic poker sites? If they have fronted a great deal of the money, then don't they have the right to large representation on the board? And isn't more important what the PPA does than who is on its board of directors?

[TheEngineer]

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Mason has stated here that he wants wholeasale board resignations plus 2+2 LLC representation on the board. I don't think Bryan can do this.

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I have never stated that Two Plus Two LLC should have representation on the board. I have stated that I'm very uncomfortable with large affiliate banks having representation on the board, and since we are moving into that area it may not be proper for there to be a Two Plus Two board member.

I also have stated that I believe there needs to be changes made in their board but have only publicly called for the resignation of one board member although we would be happy with more chages than that.

Mason

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Mason,

The vision you described here would require more than one board member to resign, which was my main point. Regardless, the changes required to meet your expectations truly are well above Bryan's level.

It sounds like 2+2 LLC and PPA are at a stalemate. You require them to remove one board member as a minimum to even consider moving beyond your "neutral" rating, and PPA will not do this. Is there nothing that can be done to break this logjam? It doesn't seem productive. After all, while no one is saying PPA is perfect, the poll we just ran did show a reasonably high degree of support for them. If you can come up with an alternate plan that doesn't involve removal of this one member, will you PM me or call me so I can try to move something forward? If not, that's fair enough. In that case, I guess we'll all agree to disagree and move forward for poker.

Thanks.