More NSA Bush-[censored]

[troymclur]

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I don't know for sure, but my impression from Law & Order was that phone companies have been making records like this available to law enforcement for years now. Can someone explain to me how this is worse?

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whether its worse or not is beside the point. It's wrong.

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By "wrong," you mean what? It's certainly constitutional. It's certainly an accepted practice of law enforcement. Without a doubt, ordinary Americans have more to fear from call logs created by normal law enforcement than from this program. No offense, but I think people's hatred of Bush is making them indulge in some hyperbole.

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I think you're right about hyperbole, but i also think the other end of the spectrum exists as well. All in all, i think the general perception is more passive than i'd like, but will conedede that while i see genuine arguments out there, they are diluted by the ridiculous comparisons of Bush to Nazism, Facism, et al.

What consitutes 'wrong' may be aside from what is constitutional, but i do think what is constitutional should stem from what the body politic deems right and wrong. My limited understanding of these events is that Bush is side-stepping judicial over-sight and essentially endorsing wire-taps without probable cause. I think that is wrong with respect to the spirit of the law.

No doubt the likelyhood of this affecting me is small, but i have little concern with that when it comes to my governments actions. I hold bodies such as Congress and the Military to a strict standard not only because they are to represent the purest of principals, but also because they are responsible to serve and protect the unwashed masses (myself included) and too much goes unnoticed to let the things we do catch go 'unpunished'.

[andyfox]

So I had pocket aces three times today and finished 2nd, 2nd and 3rd. Then I watched Bernie encircle that pop-up, managing to avoid having it hit his glove. We're redoing our backyard and the landscape guy, after having planted a lot of stuff today, left me a message that "we" may have made a mistake since there'll be no irrigation for two months. Hanging up the phone, I threw my back out.

A miserable day.

Until I read your other post.

Now I'm all smiles.

Thanks.

Your Democratic poker-losing losing Yankee fan non-irrigated in pain friend,
Andy

[andyfox]

"temporary sacrfices need to be made during wartime, but when the war is over then this stuff needs to be over as well."

The problem here is that the way the administration has defined the war, it will never be over.

[Hoi Polloi]

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If you are going to fight terrorism , you need dictatorial powers. Plain and simple. If this incredible violation of the Constitution and traditional American freedoms can be used to prevent one attack, it's worth it.

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FYP -- WTB

[Hoi Polloi]

KGB = King George Bush

[Copernicus]

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Much ado about nothing, just lot's of hoopla about call logging and whatever else surfaces once the midget minds in Congress have their hysterical hearings that will ruminate and fondle the leftovers missed by the self-righteous crusading media goons.

Some one knows I called that escort and massage service in Las Vegas from Bally’s and ordered up two redheads, one tall blonde with extra large hooters, and a tight-assed Thai beauty. Then I called the liquor store to order 5 bottles of rum and a box of cigars. Then I call the Wal-Mart Superstore and had them delivery two coils of soft cotton rope, five gallons of extra virgin olive oil, and a bucket of guacamole dip. So what. Who the fu*k cares.

The pathetic caterwauling and hand wringing by the morbid moralist crowd of sappy crybabies that infest this forum is almost funny.

Take a few moments to do just a little rational thinking. You have been spied on ever since you were born in ways that are almost too numerous to count and information gleaned from your everyday activities wholesale about your meaningless lives – By a whole plethora of government agencies, local police and sheriff departments, state oversight henchmen, by credit bureaus and business interest, banks and marketing firms, that track and paw over every last little bit of information that spews, chugs and clanks from our computerized and mechanized world. Car dealers, web hackers, Baptist preachers, shopper cards, discount buyers cards, clubs, passports, airline tickets, bars, Jesuits, bar codes, street gangs, video cameras on every street corner and in every store, security guards, The Greek Orthodox Church, The FBI, The CIA, The BBC, and BB King, and don’t forget the old-time method that has lasted thousands of years - that of the neiborhood bitty and other busybody networks that watch and track and gossip about every move in the area, along with the gossip chain at work. My gawd - I’m so appalled that someone is spying on me.

There are other things more important to get worked up over than a government agency logging phone calls by the millions. Considering how inept many think the government is – why even worry – it will only confuse them and perhaps blind them with mountains of trashy mish-mash about the throbbing masses. Calm down and drink a beer and smoke a cigar and watch the Red Sox beat the Yankees.


Le Misanthrope

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Change it to "watch Ottawa beat Buffalo" and I call POTY [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DeadMoney_J]

I guess the question would be (and the question that many people have batted around) is where E.O. 12333, FISA, and other legal restrictions/allowances fit in when it comes to the cyber/non-itrusive intelligence means.
Where is the line?
The real issue comes that when using the tools that exploit the data discussed in this thread (analyst tools/notebook and SOF tools) there would be no feasible way to have a warrant due to time constraints and just overwhelming numbers that can be inter-related. This information however, can lead to Gov. entities pursuing warrants in order to obtain more detailed info pertaing to Items of Interests (which is usually inclusive with a Person of Interests list that is generated due to raw data analysis). So in short, that initial data is needed to obtain the leads which lead to the warrants.

[Zeno]

If I could add some humor and a smile to your day Andy, then that made the post worthwhile in my opinion.

Good luck with all that other stuff. By the way, Don't Phone Home. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

-Zeno

[Roybert]

Interesting link ...

Link to FCC site

[CORed]

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Well you all know that I'm not going to agree with your scaremongering here, at least not 100%. Because I think temporary sacrfices need to be made during wartime, but when the war is over then this stuff needs to be over as well. However, although I don't object to the NSA doing this during wartime, I would object with the rest of you if other law enforcement agencies at whatever level were routinely able to use such a database for fishing expeditions.

Of course, if you have nothing to hide then . . .

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The emperor is not naked. He has bought a magnificent suit of new clothes that all people of intelligence and good taste can see. If you think the emperor is naked, you are obviously lacking in taste and/or intelligence.