skier well

[Snipe]

Skier,

How do you go about determining an opponents 3bet range? I've been running into more and more 3bet monkeys recently and, while eventually they end up shoving bad over a 4bet bluff or stack off in some other spewtard way, I can't help but think that there is a more optimal way to deal with these guys than waiting for a premium hand. Still, 3bet ranges are a very player specific thing and take quite a while to converge; some people like to 3bet junk, some like hands that play well against your percieved opening range, some players tend to simply open up what would be their standard 3bet range to include less premium holdings.

So in summation, I'd like to understand your approach to determining players 3bet ranges.

Thanks

[skier_5]

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Nice well.

Can you discuss the flop/check-raise? I'm having a hard time finding boards to make this move as a bluff.

p.s.
Hopefully the weather is better in Praha, you didn't miss much in Amsterdam, late fall isn't the time to see Europe.

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not sure quite how much i wanna discuss this, but i'll talk about it a bit i guess.

Against thinking opponents you should really be trying to do it on boards that hit your range. At lower stakes, as long as you don't overdo it (and maybe even then) people will probably just fold if they dont have a pretty good hand. so you might want to consider c/r bluffing boards that it's difficult to continue on/or hit a hand. especially ones that they might cbet like every time with their whole range. Also, backdoor draws, gutshots, overcards, etc help a lot as well.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

member i used to own your soul back in the day

[skier_5]

[ QUOTE ]
Skier,

How do you go about determining an opponents 3bet range? I've been running into more and more 3bet monkeys recently and, while eventually they end up shoving bad over a 4bet bluff or stack off in some other spewtard way, I can't help but think that there is a more optimal way to deal with these guys than waiting for a premium hand. Still, 3bet ranges are a very player specific thing and take quite a while to converge; some people like to 3bet junk, some like hands that play well against your percieved opening range, some players tend to simply open up what would be their standard 3bet range to include less premium holdings.

So in summation, I'd like to understand your approach to determining players 3bet ranges.

Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Without seeing showdowns or knowing how they play it often is pretty difficult to determine people's ranges. Some people have their bluff range and their value range while others are more apt to 3bet 2 cards depending on the situation. Fairly quickly the line between bluff and value becomes blurred.

Against people who are constantly 3betting you it's pretty profitable to just 4bet shove Axs and pairs. I don't have the math handy though, so you might want to do the math yourself and make sure you aren't shoving on the wrong people because I wouldn't want you doing something spewy because of me.

Just in general when you know their range is wide, you can open up your range and call and see flops and play back at them with draws or pairs. A good read on how someone plays in 3 bet pots will allow you to crush them if they constantly 3bet since i bet most ssnl opponents are playing far from good in them.

[skier_5]

[ QUOTE ]
member i used to own your soul back in the day

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pretty sure it went both ways, at least a bit anyways.

[bubaloo]

if you could go back in time a year and give yourself 1 piece of poker related advice, what would it be?

[ASPoker8]

how annoying was i when i was learning nl cash?