First BnM tourney: poor play or bad luck?

Roland GTX · #1 10-19-2007, 07:23 AM

I played in my first casino tournament a few days ago in Dublin and am trying to analyse the hand that knocked me out of the game. Here is the situation:

Eight players left at the final table of an 80 player tourney with a 50 euro buy in and top eight in the money. Play has been tight for the last 30 minutes while waiting for the ninth place player to go out on the bubble. The blinds are at 500/1000 and will increase to 800/1500 in two minutes.

I am an amateur with home game and profitable small stakes NL multi-table SnG experience. My goal for the tournament was to make the final table. After I got there, my goal was to win it. I have played tight all evening, only shown down premium cards and gotten respect from the other players. People folded to the few moves I made. (Thanks Dan Harrington!)

BB has K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
The BB is a pro player and has the second largest stack with 22 000. I have been at his table all night and know that his plays fairly tight, but can definitely makes some moves in the right situations.

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I have the third largest stack with 18 000. I am fifth to act and everyone has folded to me. I decide to try to steal the blinds. I raise to 4 000. Everyone folds but the BB calls me. I assume that he knows what I am trying to do and has good enough cards to call, but not good enough to re-raise me.

The pot is now 8500.
Flop comes: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

The BB bets 5 000, making the pot 13 500.
I reason as follows:
I am pretty sure that the flop missed him with all the low cards on the board, and feel fairly sure that he has two high cards.I interpret his raise as most likely being his attempt to win the pot, and that he is correctly assuming that I have two high cards and have also missed the flop.

If I fold, I will still have the third largest stack, but my M will drop down to 6. If I call and lose I will be in even worse shape. However, if I re-raise I estimated about a 2/3 chance that the BB would fold if I had read him correctly. If he called I would still have at least 15 outs with my nut flush, two overcard, miracle straight and even high card possibilities. Winning the hand would make me chip leader and give me an excellent possibility to win the tournament.

I go all-in with my remaining 14 000 making it a 9 000 re-raise to him. The pot is now 27 500. He is getting 3/1 odds, but I did not think he would jeopardize his position in the tournament on a marginal hand (unlike me).

After a long time thinking, he called me and his pair of threes held up to win the hand. I went out of the tournament in 8th place, but on the plus side nonetheless. Casino play was much more exhilarating than playing online.

Did I play poorly, or simply get unlucky? Any advice would be appreciated.

jus_nutz · #2 10-19-2007, 07:36 AM

welcome to the forum

firstly, your i interpret your preflop arise not as an attempt to steal the blinds but rather as a value raise. it is ok, you couldve also shoved the hand preflop. the flop is perfect for you, you have two oves and nutflush draw, everything than going all in would be a mistake. all in is super standard in this situation. i wonder that he thought that long to call as it was an insta and also super standard call in this situation. he had bottom pair and drawing to 2nd nuts.
dont be results oriented

pped5700 · #3 10-19-2007, 07:39 AM

I raise less PrF. Probably 3xBB at this stage from LP; (not that big of a deal). With this SPR, shove this flop everytime he donks into you.

nh

Roland GTX · #4 10-19-2007, 07:46 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. My preflop bet was a value bet, but I expected everyone to fold when I made it. I would have bet 3x the blinds rather than 4x if I wanted to entice some action.

I've been thinking about the hand for two days now and just couldn't get rid of a nagging feeling that I had made some sort of newbie mistake with the hand. Thanks for your take on the matter.

ssnyc · #5 10-19-2007, 09:58 AM

roland...odd call by the BB for 4K from a rlatively tight player (he only has 22K) with K 3...once that flop hits you are both going all the way...you played it fine...he played it poor and you got coolered...

don't stress over it and gl

JammyDodga · #6 10-19-2007, 11:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My preflop bet was a value bet, but I expected everyone to fold when I made it. I would have bet 3x the blinds rather than 4x if I wanted to entice some action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, thats crazy talk!

1. Never adjust your bet size to teh strength of your hand. People will pick up on that.

2 Its not a value bet if you want them to fold. And turning a decent hand into a bluff is pretty bad. You may as well be betting with any two cards if you are thinking liek that.

What were the stack sizes of the people behind you? What were you going to do if any of them pushed? You should have had a plan for each and every one of them.

halpgr · #7 10-19-2007, 11:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
roland...odd call by the BB for 4K from a rlatively tight player (he only has 22K) with K 3...once that flop hits you are both going all the way...you played it fine...he played it poor and you got coolered...

don't stress over it and gl

[/ QUOTE ]Plus most pros probably don't play 50 euro live events.

levAA · #8 10-19-2007, 11:51 AM

So you are in the CO with ATs - your preflop raise was fine.

To reraise all-in on this flop is standard imo as you have FE and with the nut flush draw and two overs a slight favorite against most hands.

DeuceSeven · #9 10-19-2007, 04:14 PM

Your raise is fine, however I prefer 2.5k. I shove over villains bet on the flop, unless he has a set or an A with a paired kicker, or like this case a pair and the same fd you're the favorite. Also once you get to your stack size, you need to realize you're basically committed if you raise as big as you did, your stack is too small be raising 25%+ and folding.

At this blind level you can either raise 2.5xbb, where you can fold if repopped or you get called and miss the flop or you can raise to 4xbb and plan on never folding, or if you're going to raise to 4x just raise to 6x and make your decision easier on the flop (go and go kind've).

If you feel bb can outplay you postflop raise pf too 6xbb, if not raise to 2.5xbb which gives you some wiggle room to fold.

Edit: I would like to add that villain played horribly pf calling off 1/8 his stack with a piece of [censored] hand.

AhabCaptain · #10 10-19-2007, 04:50 PM

As said above if you plan on raising to 4BBs or more you can as well raise it to 6-7 BB, because you will never fold on the flop. You can add a little twist, assuming that the pro he is (from his play we saw that he isn't) he will see that by betting close to half your stack you commit yourself to the pot. I find doing this with a weak hand a very risky but a very elegant way of stealing from a very good player. An astute pro would only call you with a stronger holding because he knows that it will cost him all your chips to show it down.