Pushing the Marginal? (Blind Defense)

[Zeldark]

SB is 20.3/10.2/1.5 over 60ish hands. Was this noob, pro, or just insane? His decisions are mostly swift, he thought for a while between calls and checks once the turn hit.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (5 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Final Pot: 7 BB

[mvoss]

I think the river is close between checking behind and betting. If you had a very low or very high spade it'd be an easy bet but with the 8 it's difficult because you want to get value but you don't want to fold to a raise. I think the bet is ok, but I'd probably tend to just check it through.

[tyler_cracker]

i think i would raise the flop and go from there.

as played, it's fine. river bet = valuetown. you folding to a raise?

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the river is close between checking behind and calling. If you had a very low or very high spade it'd be an easy bet but with the 8 it's difficult because you want to get value but you don't want to fold to a raise. I think the bet is ok, but I'd probably tend to just check it through.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are on the right track but you are taking the wrong street into consideration. You have to bet the river imo.

[detruncate]

Don't mind the turn bet. Don't like the river bet.

The A is essentially a blank, so unless Villain is decidedly skittish it won't help you much (if at all) re. bluffing odds. Your Q also beats a lot of the unpaired flush draws that make up a significant % of his holdings + won't fold many better ones, so I just check behind.

Edit: Wow... apparently I can't count flush cards any more. 5 is an actual hand, self. Check the turn, call a river bet or bet when checked to.

[mvoss]

[ QUOTE ]
You are on the right track but you are taking the wrong street into consideration. You have to bet the river imo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why, what does his turn call tell you that makes the river a must-bet? Or are you saying that you'd rather check the turn to call a river bet, and if so why?

[Zeldark]

Mvoss: What does the river change that makes us want to check while we didn't on the turn? Or do you also think the turn is close between checking and "calling", (which I assume you meant betting)

Tyler: I don't know. He's been playing a very tight but straightforward game. I didn't expect him to raise either way. I put him on Ax, Kx, or highish stray diamond, TJQ maybe. I expect him to get value from A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]x or even the King.

[Shillx]

By betting the turn and checking the river you plan on putting one bet into the middle. The problem is that you deny him the chance to bluff when you do this (he might bluff c/r but I'm counting that). Checking automatically = 1 bet because you will call when he bets and bet when he checks. If he folds to your river bet he would have certainly folded to your turn bet. When you have the best hand he is basically always drawing dead and you are always dead when behind. So the only reason to bet the turn is to get value (or bluff which isn't the objective here) but why not bet the river for value if you are going to bet the turn for value?

[mvoss]

I meant betting, corrected in my OP now.

Yeah I guess I see the point of Shillx's post now. After the 4th diamond falls on the turn you want to see a showdown and you also want to get max value. Your hand is not at all vulnerable so you might as well check behind on the turn and call a river bet, or bet if checked to on the river.

[mvoss]

Thank you for the enlightening (as always) explanation.