Horrible Moderation In Politics Forum

[BluffTHIS!]

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The moderation in the politics forum is not horrible. Could it be improved? – Yes. - How you ask? I have no solution and even if I did I would not offer it. The politics forum should evolve into non-existence, becoming extinct in other words by its own lack of good judgment, humor, and civility added by the dragging dead weight of the infantile posters and the ribald imbecilities displayed by many of the contributors. Let it die the ignoble death that it so plainly deserves.

-Zeno

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You notice how the admins rarely/never comment in these type of threads discussing the politics forum? Why do you think that is? It's simply because:

1) they don't care about the "quality" of the politics forum as in open and *honest* debate, so long as it doesn't cause a trainwreck perceived as racist or something similar;

2) the cost of having a "bad" politics forum to the site and 2+2's business is virtually zero because whether it stays or goes it won't affect book sales and advertising revenue (and that's even true of any individual strat forum now);

3) politics threads are mostly unwanted in other forums (think of the land of misfit toys in the Rudolf the Rednosed Reindeer story).


Thus iron's modship is secure barring the most egregious violation of modding standards, which he takes to a PC extreme because he is heavily invested in being a mod, and because he honestly can't get past his own biases that are a result of that mushy intelectually weak PC ideology that he has absorbed.

[Mickey Brausch]

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You notice how the admins rarely/never comment in these type of threads discussing the politics forum? Why do you think that is?

[/ QUOTE ]Because it is a very low-traffic forum, comparatively, and they only concern themselves with it when things get irrirating and bothersome enough in there. Typical business attitude for slow-moving product - and I mean this in the nicest sense.

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They don't care about the "quality" of the politics forum as in open and *honest* debate, so long as it doesn't cause a trainwreck perceived as racist or something similar.

[/ QUOTE ]FWIW, I think the level of political discussion in the 2+2 forum is way above the level in a typical weblog or political message board. And it has all the ingredients that characterize a lively, informative and revealing political message board.
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The cost of having a "bad" politics forum to the site and 2+2's business is virtually zero because whether it stays or goes it won't affect book sales and advertising revenue.

[/ QUOTE ]The admins are probably not afraid of "losing the politics forum" as such but, rather, of having it cause a significant embarassment, as they see it, to their general online endeavors, e.g. getting mentioned in other websites or a magazine for spewing "hatred", "racism", and so on.

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Politics threads are mostly unwanted in other forums.

[/ QUOTE ]And American Idol threads are (I suppose) mostly unwanted in the Medium Stakes forum. Your comment is a truism without any kind of significance.

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Iron's modship ... can't get past his own biases that are a result of that mushy intelectually weak PC ideology that he has absorbed.

[/ QUOTE ]As opposed to the iron fist policy that's necessary for moderating a political discussion forum, a policy that only strong-willed, intellectually superior ideologues (such as, f'rinstance, Roman Catholic conservatives) are able to deploy.

Right.

[BluffTHIS!]

Mickey/Cyrus,

Your last comment is a joke as you are the prime practioner of intentionally dishonest debate purely as a means of promoting a rhetorical position. And what is a bigger joke is iron placing any credence in your views, as in a former knee-jerk reaction situation of his where he accepted your LIE that I had linked to an anti-semitic blog which actually was demostrated to be pro-Jewish/Israel. Take your lying BS somewhere else.

[AlexM]

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There is a reasonable possibility that someone like that would take the Congressman's message to heart

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And it is much more likely that us having a conversation about it will stop people from taking such things to heart.

To respond to Mickey's post in the other thread:

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I declare my inability to demostrate the idiocy of a person's ideas without describing and quoting in some detail that person's ideas.

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QFT

We can't teach people that bigotry is wrong if bigotry is censored. Censoring bigotry just facilitates more bigotry.

You're the one fostering bigotry here with this ridiculous censorship IMO, Iron.

[[Phill]]

I really like politics but its this thread that shows why i gave up on the forum - how do you expect other non political minded people to view it?

The only argument against killing the forum is keeping all you in the corner out of the way and not bothering the rest of us.

[AlexM]

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how do you expect other non political minded people to view it?

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I can't even begin to understand how people who don't care about the world view things. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Myrtle]

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Personally, I think it would only take two or three incidents similar to the one I linked to for the Politics forum to be shut down permanently. Mason does not like having to deal with the potential for racism on the board. I can't be monitoring the board all the time and it only takes one aggrieved person like Jman to PM Mason and bring the shitstorm down on us. I try very hard to moderate the board to allow discussions of racism that I think are important and interesting, but I would rather shut that topic down entirely than risk the continued existence of the forum.

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You might be right. For all I know politics might get shut down again if people aren't careful.

Would that be such a bad thing? Seriously, what use is a politics forum where the discussion is constantly censored and well-intentioned people are afraid of being banned for expressing their honest beliefs?

By censoring politically incorrect opinions about race you aren't helping eliminate racism. Quite the contrary, in your own small way you are an enabler who helps racism to continue.

People believe a lot of things about race that aren't PC. Maybe they are right and maybe they are wrong but most of them are well-intentioned. They have reasons for believing what they believe and these reasons make sense at least in their own minds.

But most of these people aren't stupid either. They know their ideas aren't PC and they don't usually share them except with like-minded people whom they trust.

The rare person who dares to actually articulate these politically incorrect points of view is not a problem, he's a treasure. The taboo line of reasoning comes out of the closet where everyone can see it and debate it. That's important because sometimes unpopular ideas are valid.

But even when the idea in question is completely incorrect it's still useful to have an open discussion. It's the essential first step in making wrong ideas go away. By honestly discussing ideas (instead of PC preaching) you show respect for the people who believe them. You also address the underlying reasons for the beliefs which you might otherwise not even recognize much less understand.

Free speech is a messy thing. Everyone says they believe in it but few actually do (those secret beliefs again).

Give it a try. I promise you there will be some really ugly moments if you do. But in the long run America will be better off if all the disparate races, religions, ethnic groups, social classes, etc. put their cards on the table and say what they really think to each other. It's much better than the current system of talking amongst ourselves in private and thinking suspicious thoughts about everyone else.

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SW.....thanks for this post.

I have supported and argued consistently for there to be a differentiated type of modding in the Politics Forum ever since its' inception for all the reasons you listed above (and others).

With no disrespect to the mods there now, the concept of modding a Political Forum is ultimately self-defeating and has a result 180 degrees out of phase with its' intention.

[pvn]

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I really like politics but its this thread that shows why i gave up on the forum - how do you expect other non political minded people to view it?

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Why should anyone care what non-XYZ-minded people think about a forum for XYZ?

I'm not a big fan of stud. With all of the stud-minded discussion in the stud forum, how can you expect a non-stud-minded person to view it?

[Mike Haven]

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The only argument against killing the forum is keeping all you in the corner out of the way and not bothering the rest of us.



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Phill S for mod of About The Politics Forum Forum.

[iron81]

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Seriously, what use is a politics forum where the discussion is constantly censored and well-intentioned people are afraid of being banned for expressing their honest beliefs?

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This is no reason why this should be true outside of racism. I allow a lot of lattitude for discussion on virtually every area of discussion besides racism. I think its been months since I've locked a thread for merely being stupid or offensive. Believe me, I've taken plenty of crap for not moderating that kind of thing. I do this because I share your concerns about the importance of openness.

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The rare person who dares to actually articulate these politically incorrect points of view is not a problem, he's a treasure. The taboo line of reasoning comes out of the closet where everyone can see it and debate it. That's important because sometimes unpopular ideas are valid.

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I agree with this and its the main reason I continue to allow race threads. I haven't touched long race threads like this one because they are valuable. However, I draw the line at actually espousing racism. I believe it is possible to discuss racism without being racist.

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Thus iron's modship is secure barring the most egregious violation of modding standards.

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This isn't good enough for me. The person moderating the Politics forum should be the person who can best encourage discussion while protecting the forum who is willing to do it. I took this job partly because I thought that this person is me, but the day I find someone new who fits this will be my last day as moderator. I care about the forum too much to let my ego get in the way of improving it. That said, the only suggestion I've heard for a new mod that I like is Bobman. I'll PM him.

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FWIW, I think the level of political discussion in the 2+2 forum is way above the level in a typical weblog or political message board. And it has all the ingredients that characterize a lively, informative and revealing political message board.

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Thanks for saying this Mickey. The Politics forum IMHO is very high quality, with a level of discussion that 2+2 should be proud of.