The Fog of War

[TIEdup14]

The Fog of War (imdb)

The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara

This documentary by Errol Morris chronicles the life of Robert McNamera, US Secretary of War from 1961-1968. Set mainly during the Vietnam war, it proposes eleven "lessons" that McNamara has learned throughout his time serving the country in various aspects.

The style is pretty intense, Morris utilizes what he calls an "Interrorgator", which basically displays the interviewer to the interviewee on a screen in front of a camera. The effect is a one on one style that the viewer can feel-- McNamara is talking to you, not at you.

I'll be using this film in a project for my US History in Film class. Basically I need to pick a few scenes from this film and discuss them in a historic sense.

For those who have seen this film, I think I'm going to use the scene where McNamara talks about two very "telling" photographs of the President (LBJ) and himself at a conference table.

I'd appreciate some insight from those who have seen this film and suggestions on any other scenes that are particularly moving or even entertaining.

I also plan to briefly note the soundtrack used in this film as well (Philip Glass). Any comments about how you felt about its use would be fantastic.

Any general comments/discussion about the movie would be great as well!

[Dominic]

I loved this film. It really gave you an idea of how the whole war and his decisions have weighed on McNamara. Very interesting movie.

[Moneyline]

I've seen almost every Errol Morris film and I would say that this is by far his worst. The problem stems from McNamara, one of American history's greatest fools, whose ramblings are supposed to be given some sort of weight because he is old, has held positions of power, has waged war in the past, but seems not to support the latest one. If the movie is significant for anything, it is that McNamara acknowledges how incredibly dimwitted his (and consequently the nation's) response to the Gulf of Tonkin incident was.

If McNamara's assertions in the film were graded by merit, it would have failed to find an audience. For example, his justification for the IMF is worthy of eye-rolling if not outright laughter. That said, Morris' abilities as a filmmaker combined with the fact that McNamara has held power give the impression that he is somebody worth listening to. He is not.

EDIT: It has been a while since I've seen it, but there is another important aspect to the film. IIRC, McNamara says something to the effect that if the US had lost WWII many of the Generals would have been correctly tried for war crimes.

[Wynton]

Moneyline,

Is it your position that this movie was not very good because McNamara is not an important historical figure? I haven't seen the film, but I am certainly interested in hearing McNamara's opinions, not because I expect to agree with them, but because he did have a somewhat unique perspective and experience.

[Triumph36]

How can McNamara not be worth listening to? The guy held important positions of power during some of our most difficult times as a country. Even if he was a bumbling fool, it's worth listening to him bumble, no?

I enjoyed the film also - I've never seen any other Errol Morris work, but I thought it very good. I'm a huge Philip Glass fan, and while I feel his soundtrack work is either misused or Glass-lite, this film integrated it fairly well.

[Moneyline]

It's my position that the problem with the film is that McNamara's opinions are framed as facts and/or wisdom. To be generous, many of these opinions are controversial, yet none of them are challenged or debated. The considerable talents of Errol Morris, and for that matter Philip Glass, give credence to the proceedings, even though McNamara's words are not worthy of them.

Sadly, McNamara was important figure in shaping American policy, but that doesn't mean his unchallenged opinions are worth listening to. To use an extreme comparison, Benito Mussolini was also an important historical figure, but I think most would agree that a film that featured 90 minutes of Mussolini's ramblings would not be worthy as anything other than a curiosity.

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
I enjoyed the film also - I've never seen any other Errol Morris work, but I thought it very good. I'm a huge Philip Glass fan, and while I feel his soundtrack work is either misused or Glass-lite, this film integrated it fairly well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that Glass' score was typically excellent.

If you liked this film, then I definitely recommend checking out some of Morris' other films- it only gets better from here. Of particular interest are THE THIN BLUE LINE, A BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME, and GATES OF HEAVEN.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
To use an extreme comparison, Benito Mussolini was also an important historical figure, but I think most would agree that a film that featured 90 minutes of Mussolini's ramblings would not be worthy as anything other than a curiosity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if it was incoherent rambling, then it would not be much of a movie. But if it was Mussolini coherently spouting his views, then I think a movie might actually be compelling. One does not have to agree with Mussolini - or McNamara -to be interested in what they are saying.

Perhaps the problem is that the movie suggests, uncritically, that McNamara is correct? I could see that posing an issue for me.

[TIEdup14]

Moneyline from what I understand, the eleven "lessons" presented are gleaned from what McNamara provides; they are not explicitly spelled out.

I'm curious as to which part of this

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: It has been a while since I've seen it, but there is another important aspect to the film. IIRC, McNamara says something to the effect that if the US had lost WWII many of the Generals would have been correctly tried for war crimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

you disagree with

[Moneyline]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the problem is that the movie suggests, uncritically, that McNamara is correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my objection to the fiim.