barf (evaluating the relative strength of an overpair )

[MLG]

evg,
you're right, but you would do yourself and everybody else some good by stepping up and explaining basic reasoning when you assert it sometimes. The more you do that the less those assertions you make will be questioned.

[0evg0]

Whitey,

raising preflop bloats the pot and doesnt really define villain's hand much. he's calling with like a shitton of pairs (both bigger and smaller), and coming over the top of us with both stuff we beat and stuff we do not beat.

[MLG]

evg,
be more explicit. ranges and stuff. not two lines, two paragraphs. you wanna be a dick? earn it.

[TheDreamer]

If we 3 bet, we obviously fold to a shove. If he calls, I think I might be even MORE scared...like being a reasonable player, he's not gonna call off 1/5 of his stack OOP unless he's on a slowplay (KK or AA). So basically, either
1)he folds
2)he shoves and we fold
3)he calls, we fold without set, stack him with set

So in this situation, 3 betting TT is EXACTLY the same as 3betting 22. Personally I don't think 3 betting 22 is terrible, i mean it DOES take him a lot of semi-stealing hands, but I certainly think calling's the better play.

[Whitey]

See its not that hard! (sorry couldnt resist [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I concede its close, though I find it hard to believe he 3 bets many hands we beat other than AK and possibly AQ without a read.

Is this incorrect thinking?

[0evg0]

maybe some other time. it's not like i even know the math stuff well, plus i have no pokerstove here, plus i'm lazy, plus other excuses.

if i'm still a dick, who cares. maybe one person took something out of my half-assed reply and something clicked for them. if so, i've at least done something more than not opening this thread in the first place.

[registrar]

[ QUOTE ]
See its not that hard! (sorry couldnt resist [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I concede its close, though I find it hard to believe he 3 bets many hands we beat other than AK and possibly AQ without a read.

Is this incorrect thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree that he doesn't three bet anything we beat except AK but, this deep, he doesn't have to fold and he's almost going to have a hand that he'll play to a reraise having opened from ep. We've then defined our hand and it's difficult to get value from anything we lead on the flop and yet we're being dragged along by pot odds at this stage. We don't like overcards, we don't like rag flops that we get action on, we feel obliged to protect our hand on str8 and flush boards. It's often very messy. Also, say he has JJ - we're then ensuring we get stacked oin this board. He's not going to three-bet pre-flop.

If we call, well, sometimes you're faced with tough decisions like this but you're in position with a smaller pot and thus you have a greater expectation and more options.

I disagree that we should never raise. I think against weak opponents and shallower, a raise pre-flop is fine/good/optimal but I think in this kind of event against a reasonable player with a big stack and plenty of room for multi-street play, calling is definitely best, without any reads or image.

This is all a bit confused. I'm still trying to work out what PLO8 monkeys do despite having the chip lead.

[uclabruinz]

I agree with 0evg0's analysis. I disagree with him being a dick about it.

[0evg0]

[censored] you old man. arent you like bald?

[uclabruinz]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored] you old man. arent you like bald?

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, you got me there!