what do artists get out of creating art

[xxThe_Lebowskixx]

suppose someone has a great story or a great painting inside of them. getting it out could take years of torment, failure and misery.

if the effort worth it?

what the artist gains:

1. financial gain (sometimes)
2. respect from peers, fame (sometimes)
3. self satisfaction with his creation/achievement

I'm concerned with #3. Do we have any artists on record saying whether all their pain was worth it? Are artists victims who were cursed with a capacity for greatness and realizing this felt a responsibility to sacrifice their blood and sweet?

If a director watches his film 500 times to make sure its perfect, aren't we the viewer who sits down relaxingly to watch it getting more out of it than he does?

[KilgoreTrout]

They get to say, "Look what I created!!!"

[rothko]

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If a director watches his film 500 times to make sure its perfect, aren't we the viewer who sits down relaxingly to watch it getting more out of it than he does?

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no. the viewer puts less into it and that is where the inequity is not that the viewer get more out of it. as a casual filmmaker/musician/painter/writer i can say from experience that i get way more out of my creations than anyone else ever will or can, but it does come at a cost of much effort.

[David H]

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If a director watches his film 500 times to make sure its perfect, aren't we the viewer who sits down relaxingly to watch it getting more out of it than he does?

[/ QUOTE ]
An NFL player works out 6 days a week, maintains a strict diet, and puts in extra work with a specialty coach...For all his hard work, we get to see him break the single season TD record and be the Super Bowl MVP. More enjoyable for us, or for him?

Effort!=lack of enjoyment.

[daveT]

An artist, no matter, does what they do because that is what makes them happy. There is no way that a person who is not passionate can appreciate the work, thinking, and history that went into a painting, movie, or a plate of fine food.

An artist MUST be an artist. An artist is miserable in the world they presently live in. Creating makes him or her happy, and working on a painting sounds way more enjoyable than serving tables, no matter who you are.

[kafkaFan1]

daveT what is that based on? I'm not a big expert on artists but get the impression a lot of them aren't very happy. I think creating is something they HAVE to do, not something they intellectually decide to do because it makes them happy. The doing it because that is just what they naturally do - well happiness or unhappiness could result just as easily.

Lebowski - some guy named "thebruiser500" who seems really really smart and a great person started this very related thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1

Lebowski - what prompts you to ask this question?

IMO creating things is a lot about vanity. Wanting to show the world how great you are, or maybe trying to show yourself you can do it.

[cambraceres]

As a kafka fan, you should have a special insight into this one. Op mentioned financial gain as one of the motivating factors for expression, but it was less a factor for many greats, such as Kafka, than others would assume. Kafka recieved no payment for his work, and did not pursue fame as a matter of course. His work was done at night, after regular working hours, and it was done as he said to soothe an ache. On the other hand, Nabakov mentioned his singular cause when writing a book was to bring it to an end as quickly as possible, as if expression itself were painful.

There are alot of people who function largely, and naturally, upon emotion. Music, imagery, and all the other multivarious forms of art allow us to speak in terms that can only be felt, and to say the things which can in no other way be communicated. The value of expression for those who are more centered on how they feel is pervasive; for the apathetic, clear eyed middle ager; not so much. For the young and the emotionally predisposed, poets can be teachers, the most meaningful ones that can be found. artists deal in an ineffable product of unknown origins, that in some unclear way accesses the most precious vault; the reservior of human feelings. There is significant evidence that depressive mindsets produce artistic responses of higher quality and frequency, especially with manic depressives during an manic session. Tchaikovsky was bipolar, and his periods of production exactly coincide with manic episodes, and the same is true for a suprising number of artists, especially poets.


Cam

"Poetry is not entertainment, it is escape"
Robert Lowell

[kafkaFan1]

hm liked your first paragraph you kind of lost me on a lot of the 2nd one though. i'll also add that i don't see how money could possibly play a main role in creating something of real value. it's easy to just look at poker players and see who is motivated by a competitive desire to be the best and who is motivated by a desire to win money and see how both those groups turn out.

[MagicNinja]

i just play music but the creative process is awesome, it feels awesome. you should read On Writing by steven king, he talks a lot about how great it feels to write stuff. a form of art is like a life pursuit and as you do it, you are thinking like 'wow i am improving, i am expressing my thoughts using the medium of my art'. seriously owns.

[Blarg]

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i just play music but the creative process is awesome, it feels awesome. you should read On Writing by steven king, he talks a lot about how great it feels to write stuff. a form of art is like a life pursuit and as you do it, you are thinking like 'wow i am improving, i am expressing my thoughts using the medium of my art'. seriously owns.

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There aren't a lot of people who don't enjoy money and at least on some level the recognition and approval by peers and "civilians" who are not necessarily their peers when it comes to work in some particular art form or type of achievement. That said, someone who is not merely a craftsman toiling indifferently but competently at a grindstone to pay the bills is probably usually motivated by something more than the most obvious and tangible rewards. MagicNinja gets to the heart of it, I think.

The world stymies and stifles people as a matter of course. Many people find either talent or personal expression in others threatening and feel that it demeans them by comparison. It can upset the order of things that some would prefer. Art also is, for most people, difficult to create to their highest standards, and even besides approval, one's very best artistic expression is not necessarily likely to result in any other rewards.

Therefore, creating is inherently optimistic. While creating, for a while, no matter how painful, tiring, or self-excoriating, the artist becomes an optimist and bets on himself. He may feel himself a poor or indifferent gamble anywhere else in his life, but the creative act is at the very least a defiant thumbing of one's nose at real or imagined limitations and an assertion of one's full humanity and powers. No matter how tortuous the process, artistic creation holds the promise that one can bet on oneself and win. In both the process and its products, creation can buoy, heal, exalt, and even share the soul. No wonder then that it can demand and be given it willingly.