PSA: PokerStars will not let me cash out -- EVER!

[JPT III]

For those of you (and I know there are many) that utilize the transfer method at Stars in order to pay debts/transfer money with you buddies, BEWARE. This could happen to you.

I know 2+2ers are sometimes quite skeptical, so I'll provide a bit of detail.....

Several months ago, when two people owed me money, we agreed that they would pay me in Stars money. I didn't have a Stars account yet, and had been staying away from Poker since Party pulled out. I figured this to be a good time to get back in, and a good way to get my money. So I opened an account, and had approx 6K transferred to me at Stars. That's how I funded my account.

Fully aware that Stars is not a clearinghouse, and with the intention to get back into poker, I left the money in Stars, and I played a whole bunch of poker. Limit, no limit. Didn't record exactly how much, but played a lot, and I even won a bit.

Towards the end of March, I wanted to withdraw 5K (balance was then 6800ish), and so I made the request. Then, Pokerstars wrote me an email requesting an explanation of why I funded my account by receiving money from other players. So, I wrote back, explaining as I did above the circumstances. Then they write back and say that I cannot withdraw my money. I offered to pay any banking expenses associated with the withdraw, and asked what I could do in order to get MY MONEY. They simply refuse to let me withdraw, on the basis that the player to player money transfer is only for the transfer of money that IS THE RESULT of play at their tables. (then why the f*** did they let me initially fund my account in such a manner, when such a transfer necessarily could not have been the result of play at their tables -- since the account was just opened?!?!)

I've been back and forth with them, asked them what I can do in order to have access to my money, and they tell me I can send it back to my friends (no longer an option for me) or use it at their tables (in other words, lose it at their tables). They simply will not budge or tell me what I can do to have access to MY MONEY.

Anyone that thinks they can help, please PM me. And for anyone that receives transfers from anything that is not literally a "result of activity on [Stars] tables," -- BEWARE. You're money may not be able to be withdrawn.

I guess the thing I really find unconscionable here is how Stars permitted me to open an account and fund it with player transfers, and then later takes the position that any transfer not made "as a result of activity at [Stars] tables" cannot be withdrawn. In that event, no one should ever be able to initially fund his or her account with player transfers, as they necessarily could not have made the transfer as a result of table activity! In addition, simply as a matter of good faith and customer service, they should at least offer me some resolution (pay banking fees, more play at the tables, etc.) whereby I can make the withdraw, somehow, someday, of MY MONEY.

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[NU Star]

You can probably find someone to give you PayPal for stars$. Find someone trusted in the peer-to-peer transfer thread.

[APerfect10]

[ QUOTE ]
They simply refuse to let me withdraw, on the basis that the player to player money transfer is only for the transfer of money that IS THE RESULT of play at their tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense to me. Why would you need to transfer money to players due to the result of play at the tables. Last time I checked, when I lose a hand, Pokerstars takes the money from my stack and puts it into the winning player stack.

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They simply refuse to let me withdraw, on the basis that the player to player money transfer is only for the transfer of money that IS THE RESULT of play at their tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense to me. Why would you need to transfer money to players due to the result of play at the tables. Last time I checked, when I lose a hand, Pokerstars takes the money from my stack and puts it into the winning player stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. Other than collusion, it's difficult to fathom the need to transfer money to players "as a result of activity at their tables." Of course, if 7 guys are colluding on a table, and they need to cut up their profits at the end of the day in order to prepare for their next session, I can see the need to make such a transfer "as a result of activity at Stars' tables." But at the moment that's the only scenario I can think of.

Maybe one of the a*s-clowns from Stars would like to come on and explain?

A*s-clowns, you out there? Care to explain????

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


Maybe one of the a*s-clowns from Stars would like to come on and explain?

A*s-clowns, you out there? Care to explain????

[/ QUOTE ]

prolly not the best way to get what you want man. I know you're upset and pissed, but if you really want resolution to this the above aint gunna be helpful.

I agree your problem is pretty absurd, sounds like something partypoker would do, not stars. Can you transfer it to someone other than the friends that initially funded you're account? If so then I would do like an above poster said and find someone trusted to transfer it to who will send you $$ via paypal.

If that doesnt work, say you want to play in the 200/400 game, a higher up from stars will personally call you (often lee jones) and then tell them the story?

[augie_]

JPT,

I have been reading these threads for years. Honestly, I don't even feel bad 99% of the time because the OP always leaves out some important facts like the money originated from stolen credit cards or something. A good start would be posting your emails to and from Pokerstars.

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Maybe one of the a*s-clowns from Stars would like to come on and explain?

A*s-clowns, you out there? Care to explain????

[/ QUOTE ]

prolly not the best way to get what you want man. I know you're upset and pissed, but if you really want resolution to this the above aint gunna be helpful.

I agree your problem is pretty absurd, sounds like something partypoker would do, not stars. Can you transfer it to someone other than the friends that initially funded you're account? If so then I would do like an above poster said and find someone trusted to transfer it to who will send you $$ via paypal.

If that doesnt work, say you want to play in the 200/400 game, a higher up from stars will personally call you (often lee jones) and then tell them the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I can't disagree with your opening paragraph. I'm just livid. Thanks for the tips as well. I'm exploring options, but regardless of what happens with my situation (if I figure out a way out of this), I think Stars owes an explanation for this, and should address the issue and the asinine position it has taken.

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]
JPT,

I have been reading these threads for years. Honestly, I don't even feel bad 99% of the time because the OP always leaves out some important facts like the money originated from stolen credit cards or something. A good start would be posting your emails to and from Pokerstars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no thief or criminal. I guess maybe I'm the 1% that you note above. ;-) Here are the emails:


Hello ******,

As mentioned by my colleague, you are free to use these funds on our
tables or return them to the sender to make other payment arrangemets
among yourselves.

regards,

Tuan
Pokerstars Security.




----- Original Message -----
From: *************@yahoo.com
Sent: 2007/03/23 10:48:00
To: security@pokerstars.com
Subject: Re: Your BankWire cashout

>So I can never withdraw the money you are holding of mine? That seems
to
be what you're saying below. Why can't I just pay the banking fees?
This
is very dissappointing; I'm a legitimate player at Stars. The money
was
deposited (transferred) for the purpose of playing at Stars' tables,
and
has been used for that purpose. I now need PART of it for something
else,
and I don't understand why you insist on not allowing me to withdraw MY
MONEY, which I had transferred into MY ACCOUNT. Is my only option to
lose
the money at your tables? Seems you'll never let me cash it out. What
are my options? Please advise ASAP.
>
>PokerStars Security <security@pokerstars.com> wrote: Hello *****,
>
>Thank you for sending this explanation to us.
>
>We are sorry but allowing transfers not related to Poker go against
our
>license obligations as a Poker Room.
>
>PokerStars is a site on which people come to play poker and our
transfer
>tool was designed so that players could send funds to each other as a
>result of activity on our tables.
>
>PokerStars is not a fund transfer site or a loan payment facilitator.
>
>In the future, we ask that issues unrelated to PokeStars and its
tables be
>resolved outside of our site.
>
>We have cancelled the pending cashout and returned the funds back to
your
>account.
>
>You are free to use these funds on our tables or return them to the
sender
>to make other payment arrangemets among yourselves.
>
>Best regards,
>
>
>Bruno
>PokerStars Security
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ***********@yahoo.com
>Sent: 2007/03/22 19:59:41
>To: security@pokerstars.com
>Subject: Re: Your BankWire cashout
>
>>Hello. Back in February, when two friends of mine owed me money
(approx
>6K), they offered to pay me in PokerStars money, as they had
substantial
>bankrolls with Stars and knew me to be an avid poker player. I had
stayed
>away from poker since Party Poker pulled out and the UIGEA had taken
>effect, in order to see how things worked out (for US players and the
>quality of games and sites that survived the fallout). So, when my
friends
>offered to pay me at Stars, I figured it might be a good time to get
back
>in the game, and I opened an account with Stars. In addition, the
approx
6K
>they owed me is approximately equal to the bankroll that I am now
>comfortable using for poker. The payments made to me were from another
>friend and a Stars transfer was the easiest way to send the money.
>>
>>I have enjoyed playing at Stars since, and will continue to play
here. I
>have no intention of withdrawing the approx $1800 that remains in my
>account, and I will continue to play with that money at Stars (adding
more
>if and when I need it). In the meantime, I am going on a cruise in the
>first week in April which will have poker tables at it, and I would
like
to
>use part of my bankroll for that purpose, as I greatly prefer live
play
>when on the rare occasion that I get the chance; thus the cashout that
I
>have requested. I hope Pokerstars is not upset that I am cashing out a
>large portion of the bankroll I had transferred to me, which I need to
use
>elsewhere very soon, and I purposely left the money at Stars for many
weeks
>for that reason (I assume, and hope, that Stars makes interest on
money
it
>holds on deposit).
>>
>>I hope this explanation is adequate; it is the truth. If Stars is not
>satisfied with this explanation, perhaps we could work out something
where
>I pay the banking fees/expenses incurred by Stars for my cashout.
Although
>this would be dissapointing, I do not expect any special treatment if
you
>have policies in place disallowing what I have done. I really need the
>$5,000 cashout that I requested soon, however, and hope that you will
>process it as quickly as possible.
>>
>>Please advise.
>>
>>
>>
>>PokerStars Security wrote: Hello ******,
>>
>>After review of your latest cashout, it has come to our attention
that
all
>>of the funds that you cashed out came directly from transfers that
you
>>received from different players.
>>
>>We assure you that we are not implying any wrong doing, however, as
>>players who transfer funds to others normally do this so that the
>>person who receives the transfer(s) can play at the tables and not
>>simply receive a transfer and then immediately cash it out, we would
>>appreciate an explanation as to why you cashed out most of the funds
>>transferred to you.
>>
>>It is standard procedure to require an explanation when this type of
>>situation occurs.
>>
>>Once we receive your reply and this matter has been resolved, your
>>cashout will be processed as soon as possible. Thank you for your co-
>>operation.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Jorge
>>PokerStars Security

[MicroBob]

Jorge at Stars said:
"can play at the tables and not simply receive a transfer and then immediately cash it out"

This is where you point out that you have played on Stars a GREAT DEAL and are NOT 'simply receiving a transfer and cashing it out'.


So, how much DID you actually play on Stars?
All the other stuff you are explaining doesn't seem very helpful to me.

You say that it is money for playing poker and that you have played a lot already.
You then ask how much you need to play with the money before being allowed to cash-out.


I agree Stars isn't handling this so great if you really have played a lot. Because that makes Jorge's statement about immediately turning it around and trying to cash it out incorrect.

But your failure to point that out to him more directly may be exacerbating the communication problemo here.


Hopefully Stars sees this thread sooner or later and comes up with a solution or more direct answer for you.
You may want to try PM'ing somebody like sciolist or scotyy or one of those guys.

Or you can try e-mailing Stars again with more direct questions observations about how much you have played already and how much do you need to play in order to cash out.

[TheIrishThug]

Make a (small) deposit, wait/play, withdraw.

I started my real money career off of transfers from a friend. It was a while ago, so I don't remember exactly. But I probably deposited some money for a bonus before I made any withdrawals, and I have never had any issues getting money off.