$150 Caesar's 7 p.m. FT VERY tricky chop situation

[iStackBooks]

There are 6 left (9 got paid) and we take a break to discuss a possible chop. The remaining payout structure is something like this:

1st $2800
2nd $1800
3rd $850
4th $650
5th $550
6th $490

Blinds are 3,000/6,000. Chipstacks (with proposed chop amounts) look something like this (clearly not exact but you will get the basic idea):

70,000: $1400
65,000 (me): $1300
55,000: $1100
50,000: $1050
45,000: $1000
17,000: $500

Now, everyone agrees to the chop but there is a very big problem - Caesar's has a new policy requires everyone to sign off on one of the pre-approved payouts. So, whoever takes the first place chop money has to put $2800 on a W-2 form when they are really only recieving $1400... and so on

First place refuses, and nobody else wants to sign for the first place money, so we decide to play. It gets down to 4 handed and one of the players says that she will sign off on the first place money if we agree to chop. We take a pause, and look at a new payout scale based on a straight % of chips. Something like this (again not exact):

130,000 (me): $2200
90,000: $1600
40,000: $1300
20,000: $800

I of course agree right away, and so does everyone but the shortstack. He argued that he was giving up his chance to win a tournament (and the huge prize money) for $200 because he was allready guaranteed around $600 if he busts out 4th. Everyone understood where he was coming from - I would have done the same thing. I start to get a little worried that a chop isn't going to happen and that this thing is going to turn into a crap-shoot and I'm going to get screwed. I propose that each of us (1-3) shave $100 or so off of our prizes to give to the shortstack. He says that he would agree to this, but 2nd place now doesn't like it. We are all getting very frustrated and finally agree to just play it out.

We get to 3 handed and I am in first place but only slightly. I have maybe 120,000, 2nd is like 100,000, and 3rd is like 70,000. I am by far the best player left, and fully expect to win. The blinds are still 3000/6000 and I pick up 99 on the button and run into the shortstacks JJ from the sb. I am down to 50k, have AQ in the bb, and run into 99 that holds up. So, I busted out 3rd and pocketed a disappointing $850. As I walked out of the Caesar's poker room I started to feel sick about what happened - I had $2200 guaranteed and couldn't work out a deal. My question is this: when it got down to 4 handed, what should I have done to make sure that we worked out a chop? How much should I have been willing to shave off of my prize?

The other thing that haunted me was the fact that we didn't even stop to talk chop when we got down to 3. Again, here's the situation (I have like 35-40% of the chips in play)...

1st: $2800
2nd: $1800
3rd: $850

How much of a mistake was it not to work at a chop with 3 left? What is the best way to chops this? I fully expected to win, but was well aware that anything could happen. Any feedback on this entire situation would be helpful so I can handle it better in the future.

[helter skelter]

[ QUOTE ]
I start to get a little worried that a chop isn't going to happen and that this thing is going to turn into a crap-shoot and I'm going to get screwed. . . . .

. . . . I am by far the best player left, and fully expect to win.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think you are being results oriented, but it is true that at this stage of the tourney, it is more like a crap-shoot, so even being the best player can't give you much advantage. I think that's the main reason deals are made.


When it comes to taxes, you don't have to report income you didn't receive. Just keep good records in the unlikely event you are audited. Personally, I never worry about that issue.

[Halfpoint]

This happened to me in one of the binions summer tournys. I agreed to give up some off the top to the whiners.

[helter skelter]

This is another interesting ICM problem. ICM is supposed to give a more accurate estimate of your equity in these situations.

I know you were just giving approximations here, but if we use those numbers and compare the % chop method with the ICM method, it shows this:




It looks like shortstack was right but shouldn't have been offered so much, 2nd place was right to disagree and 3rd place was wrong to agree. You are the only one that gains from % chip chop in this situation. I don't want to draw conclusions from 1 example but I suspect the chip leader always gains the most from a % chip chop.

Since you were willing to take $1300 at one point when the whole tax issue came up, I think you should look at it as only having squandered $450 [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Pokerfarian]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want to draw conclusions from 1 example but I suspect the chip leader always gains the most from a % chip chop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect that's mathematically proved/able

[iStackBooks]

What about when it got down to 3 handed? Should I have asked for a chop?