Another Stupid Peace Initiative for Israel/Arabs

[Goater]

Where do I start? Did you even read my posts in this thread?


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other than killing everyone, even though felix is a hair away from that conclusion, you can pretty much switch every instance of Jew and Palestinian in the above quote to make up the general view in this thread.

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no, you cant. until you provide evidence for this, insread of just repeating it, I wont respond. Please provide any links/evidence you have.

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israel has done no harm?

israel is entitled to something, they aren't entitled to everything they want just because those influencing the government thought its their god given right.

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Read my posts. I have never said Israel has done no harm and I, nor the vast majority of Israelis believe that Israel should get "everything". Why do you think that successive Israeli govenments have been parties that favour a 2 state solution? Oh, I forgot - you believe there is a secret, mysterious group of mad religious jews that "influence" the workings of the democracy.

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oh the government of the non existent Palestinian state?

the official media doesnt have to be equal either. im not saying both sides are equal in crimes or distortion by any extent. both sides have dirty records on both counts though. im saying to over generalize either side is a big mistake.

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yes, the governement of the not yet existant Palestinian state. The Palestinians have a government and an official media. You dispute this? When have I generalised? Generalising is what you are doing in every post.


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you also seem to be saying that all arabs are responsible for the crimes of the few but this shouldnt be true for jews?

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Please refer me to where I have said this.

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the problem with your analysis is you completely ignore the people on the other end but have full compassion for every israeli issue.

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Again, please, please read my posts in this thread. I absolutely do not ignore the Palestinian grievances. I have said many times that I fully understand why the Palestinians hate the Israelis and I certainly believe that Israel has made many mistakes.


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either way, the politics have been heavily influenced by religious fanatics and a lot of the secular israelis are very pissed off about it. I also dont think they are necessarily evil masterminds.

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No, the politics have not been heavily influenced by religious fanatics. What is your reason for saying this? Is it something your family has told you? Not "necessarily" evil masterminds? Seriously, you sound like a conspiracy theory nut.

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i just dont think you a realizing that there is another side and they have very much of the same claims

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Im now begging - PLEASE read my posts in this thread where i explicitly state that I fully appreciate that the Palestinians have legitimate claims and grievances.

You have also not answered the questions I asked in my previous reply to you.

[Zygote]

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Where do I start? Did you even read my posts in this thread?

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i have not. im only informed of the things discussed within our exchange. i will go through the thread in a bit and am sorry if ive misrepresented your opinions.

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no, you cant. until you provide evidence for this, insread of just repeating it, I wont respond. Please provide any links/evidence you have.


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i shouldnt have made a comment about the whole thread when i was really only referring to what i could see from felix's and bluffthis' posts. when i go through the thread later though maybe ill find more.

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Why do you think that successive Israeli govenments have voted for parties that favour a 2 state solution?

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for one governments dont always act on behalf of the public. aside, i agree with you that israelis for the most part agree with me that the coutry made a big mistake with the how they've dealt with the territories.

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yes, the governement of the not yet existant Palestinian state. The Palestinians have a government and an official media. You dispute this? When have I generalised? Generalising is what you are doing in every post.


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i dont dispute this but since they've yet be treated like a sovereign state they obviously will constantly preach very harsh things since they've made many promises to their people.

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No, the politics have not been heavily influenced by religious fanatics. What is your reason for saying this? Is it something your family has told you? Not "necessarily" evil masterminds? Seriously, you sound like a conspiracy theory nut.

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im sayin this because its true. religious people get major exemptions and subsidies from the government. the major unjustified land expansions were the result of their lobby. how do you deny this?

[Goater]

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i have not. im only informed of the things discussed within our exchange. i will go through the thread in a bit and am sorry if ive misrepresented your opinions.

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fair enough - it just frustrates me when people assume that you have to be either totally on one side or the other.


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i dont dispute this but since they've yet be treated like a sovereign state they obviously will constantly preach very harsh things since they've made many promises to their people.

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Being a sovereign state is no guarantee of moderation - the majority of the arab world has official media that spouts the most disguisting anti-semitism.


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religious people get major exemptions and subsidies from the government. the major unjustified land expansions were the result of their lobby. how do you deny this?

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I dont deny that they have influence, I disagree on the extent. The state was founded on secular zionism and that remains the case today. There are certain highly vocal right wing religious groups and right wing secular groups. The fact that the religious groups get subsidies is certainly a huge point of contension for secular Israelis and something I am against, but it is irrelevant to the discussion. However, I disagree with your opinion that the state is somehow run by a behind the scenes group of religious fanatics. Im sure you know that there are many reasons Israelis believe that they should hold on to the territories that have nothing to do with a religious imperative.