Sicko Revisited

[GoodCallYouWin]

"But, logically my believe is that healtcare is a basic human right and should be available to everyone. "

Ahh yes, the infamous right to force other people to labour so you can have something for free. The right to impose slavery on others.

[MarkD]

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"But, logically my believe is that healtcare is a basic human right and should be available to everyone. "

Ahh yes, the infamous right to force other people to labour so you can have something for free. The right to impose slavery on others.

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Umm... lol?

[GoodCallYouWin]

You see nothing is actually 'free' so to get something for free you must steal from someone else.

[MarkD]

BCPVP,

"Does this only apply to doctors or should it apply to people who grow food, build homes, and pipe in water as well?"

I never said doctors shouldn't be paid. They should, and so should those others you are talking about. But, if I can't afford to eat or put a roof over my head the state should provide for my basic human rights. That doesn't mean that the people doing the work won't get compensated for it.

Money,

You are wrong because there are many people in Canada who do not have jobs, can not work due to medical illness or some other such reason, and all of these people get healthcare. They do not pay. I pay for them. Therefor, not everyone pays to go to the doctor.

As to your other point I am not sure what you are talking about then. I do disagree that healthcare through taxation is not benevolent. It appears quite benevolent to me as it really seems to be the only way I can imagine where people less fortunate than myself, or yourself, will receive adequate treatment. I'm under the impression that the system in the US really doesn't work very well for the poor.

[Copernicus]

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BCPVP,

"Does this only apply to doctors or should it apply to people who grow food, build homes, and pipe in water as well?"

I never said doctors shouldn't be paid. They should, and so should those others you are talking about. But, if I can't afford to eat or put a roof over my head the state should provide for my basic human rights. That doesn't mean that the people doing the work won't get compensated for it.

Money,

You are wrong because there are many people in Canada who do not have jobs, can not work due to medical illness or some other such reason, and all of these people get healthcare. They do not pay. I pay for them. Therefor, not everyone pays to go to the doctor.

As to your other point I am not sure what you are talking about then. I do disagree that healthcare through taxation is not benevolent. It appears quite benevolent to me as it really seems to be the only way I can imagine where people less fortunate than myself, or yourself, will receive adequate treatment. I'm under the impression that the system in the US really doesn't work very well for the poor.

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Doesnt work well in what respect? Anyone in the US who NEEDS healthcare gets it. Just because they don't have a card with a number on it doesnt mean they don't get treated.

[mrick]

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Thats right, the US ranks higher is responsiveness, distribution, life expectancy, and overall goal achievement, and is RANKED 15 PLACES LOWER because Colombia's system has better "fairness of financial contribution" according to the WHO.


[/ QUOTE ]Yes, that's correct. It's the same criterion as the GINI index. (Those interested can google it up.) Having the sultan of Brunei and one million poor Bruneians, as an example, would make probably for a very high average income per capita. But the GINI index would suck. Same thing with "fairness of financial contribution"; in other words with How The Burden Is Shared.

[mrick]

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Inso0 : Stop listening to Michael Moore and start listening to people who are actually experiencing your precious Universal Healthcare

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Hmmm. Well, OK... [ QUOTE ]
MarkD : I live in Alberta. Our healthcare system is messed up and part of this is due to brain drain and mismanagement and part of it is due to Alberta's government trying to privatize the healthcare system. ... We aren't paying our doctors & nurses enough because our government is trying to privatize the system. I find the idea of paying to go to a doctor to be ludicrous and the idea of not wanting to help pay for other peoples healthcare who can't afford it to be extremely selfish and a little weird.

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And from the American side of the frontier, we have

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adios : We shouldn't be too quick in defending the U.S. health care system. I went to an emergency room about a year ago or so for a minor injury to make sure it wasn't more serious than it was (get an xray for possible broken bones). My perspective was that my being a paying customer (I have health insurance) wasn't all that common but much appreciated. I was told by one of the people treating me that the system was totally broken. Didn't pursue it too much. I got the impression that the laws in the U.S. requiring people showing up in emegency rooms to be treated irregardless of their ability to pay was a major contributing factor.

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[tolbiny]

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Thats right, the US ranks higher is responsiveness, distribution, life expectancy, and overall goal achievement, and is RANKED 15 PLACES LOWER because Colombia's system has better "fairness of financial contribution" according to the WHO.


[/ QUOTE ]Yes, that's correct. It's the same criterion as the GINI index. (Those interested can google it up.) Having the sultan of Brunei and one million poor Bruneians, as an example, would make probably for a very high average income per capita. But the GINI index would suck. Same thing with "fairness of financial contribution"; in other words with How The Burden Is Shared.

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So what? This has NOTHING to do with the quality of medical care, and everything to do with your subjective definition of fairness. The WHO report is held up as showing that the US has a poor health care system when it demonstrates nothing of the kind.

[mrick]

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Anyone in the US who NEEDS healthcare gets it. Just because they don't have a card with a number on it doesnt mean they don't get treated.

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I suppose all that stuff which pops up when I google is communist propaganda then...

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WASHINGTON POST :

When Abdul Karim Chowdhury, 89, and his wife Zahida Banoo, 75, arrived from Bangladesh more than two years ago, they thought medical care would be easy to find. But, Chowdhury said, "Our perceptions changed." Not eligible for Medicare or other assistance, he said they often had to set aside their pride and plead for reduced medical fees -- until they started visiting the [free, Muslim-set up] clinic.

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USA TODAY : As the Houston area struggles to deal with a rising tide of uninsured, it offers a lesson for the nation: Let the problem get out of hand — to a point where nearly 1 in 3 people have no coverage — and you won't just have a less healthy population. You'll have an overwhelmed health care system.

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SCIENCE.BLOG :
National surveys reflect a growing perception that the United States' uninsured can obtain proper health care through various "safety net" facilities. Not true says a study led by Harvard Medical School researchers.



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[pvn]

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I find the idea of paying to go to a doctor to be ludicrous

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Everyone pays to go to the doctor.

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I know you are being facetious but whatever. You are wrong though.

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You think that stuff is free? Really?

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the idea of the government forcing you to pay for other people's healthcare who probably don't take care of themselves to be extremely disturbing if not a little wierd.

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fyp

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Helping people less fortunate then myself doesn't strike me as such a bad thing. I guess that's weird.

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Nobody is suggesting that you shouldn't help other people.