$10/$20 Plays itself or I donked it up?

[Rosslex]

Hi Guys,
Dynamic of the table is that I have been quite active and seen to be LAG. Opponent has been known to try and slow me down.

I sensed I was in trouble on flop as he check called flop pretty quick and lead turn quick too baiting me to push. I thought this was where my LAG image was about to pay dividends though. Either way, could I play it any better / worse?

Should the turn raise major alarm bells? If we KNOW he has a flush on the turn should we fold at this stage or call and fold missed river or just push now as I did?

NL $10/$20 Texas Hold'em

Seat 1 is the button
Total number of active players : 4
Seat 1: RossG ( $1,138 )
Seat 3: rayer ( $1,965 )
Seat 4: xxTHETILTxx ( $2,533 )
Seat 6: rosser ( $2,172 )
rayer posts small blind [$10]
xxTHETILTxx posts big blind [$20]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to RossG [ Kd, Qs ]
rosser calls [$20]
RossG raises to [$90]
rayer folds
xxTHETILTxx folds
rosser calls [$70]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, Qd, Td ]
rosser checks
RossG bets [$80]
rosser calls [$80]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Qh ]
rosser bets [$200]
RossG goes all-in
RossG raises to [$968]
rosser calls [$768]
** Dealing River ** [ 9s ]
** Showdown **
rosser shows [ 5d, 4d ] a Flush
RossG mucks [ Kd, Qs ]
** Hand Conclusion **
rosser wins $2,304 from main pot with a Flush
************ Game 196343349 ends ************

[xwowsersx]

I think unless you know your opponent to be making razor thin value bets or bluffs, you sort of have to fold this turn. In general, against an unknown you cant be looking to get too deep in the hand on a three to the flush board when you have none of that suit. Also, keep in mind he could have QJ. So I think you should really be folding this turn. You don't know where you stand in the hand and you have no diamonds.

[xorbie]

You have 50BB, trips and a straight flush draw. Folding would be hilariously bad.

[xwowsersx]

[ QUOTE ]
You have 50BB, trips and a straight flush draw. Folding would be hilariously bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

But, he's also on 4th street here, facing resistance on a card that is scary to villain as well on a very coordinated straight/flush board, possibly not even drawing to the best flush, possibly without the best trips, or even behind to a full house already. I don't really see why sticking it in would be so great here/why folding be so bad. Can you please explain Xorbie?

[Rosslex]

it would be a hilarious fold for sure... even better a fold and show. If I know he has the flush should I fold? That's my real question.

I mean I appear to be getting it in here with a monster but in fact it's a losing push longterm right (vs a known flush)?

If I fold I still have 40+ BB or so.

[xorbie]

In position, to fold when against all but 3-4 hands you are drawing very, very live.. its just not good. A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Qx is the only hand that is really that bad for you here. Even against QJ you have 6 outs, obviously not a lot but against any flush/straight you are gold, and folding here against KQ would be a travesty. It's 50BB, this donk could have Q4:spades: here for all we know.

[xwowsersx]

[ QUOTE ]
In position, to fold when against all but 3-4 hands you are drawing very, very live.. its just not good. A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Qx is the only hand that is really that bad for you here. Even against QJ you have 6 outs, obviously not a lot but against any flush/straight you are gold, and folding here against KQ would be a travesty. It's 50BB, this donk could have Q4:spades: here for all we know.

[/ QUOTE ]

He could have Q4s here? I thought it would be correct to toss this out of his range. Did I miss something in the original post that would lead us to believe he could be pushing this hard with a hand like Q4 of spades? Also, even if you are right that we are drawing live, which I definitely agree is the most likely scenario here by far, we are still a 60/40 underdog to a hand like 23d, 45d, etc. My only point was that it could be even worse than that. Where do we disagree Xorbie?

[xwowsersx]

[ QUOTE ]
it would be a hilarious fold for sure... even better a fold and show. If I know he has the flush should I fold? That's my real question.

I mean I appear to be getting it in here with a monster but in fact it's a losing push longterm right (vs a known flush)?

If I fold I still have 40+ BB or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a simple math question. Just pokerstove it, it should come out to about 60/40 in his favor if he already has a flush. Could be even worse if he has the AQ with the A of diamonds, obviously. Clearly, (i think) being a 60/40 underdog is not a good spot to get it in here.

[Rosslex]

I have str8 flush draw with the K of diamonds! As well as full house possibilities.

If your opponent turned his hand face up what would you do in my position? (on the turn).

[xwowsersx]

[ QUOTE ]
I have str8 flush draw with the K of diamonds! As well as full house possibilities.

If your opponent turned his hand face up what would you do in my position? (on the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry. I'm still a little hungover from the Thanksgiving festivities and didn't realize you have the King of diamonds. That changes things. The thing here is, its sort of hard to put this guy on a range, but assuming he has a flush, its 60/40 in his favor on the turn. If he has QJ you are crushed. If he has AdQc lets say, he has you crushed. The only hand you really beat is like Ad9c. So even given your diamond, I don't think you really have that much equity against the range of hands hes representing to call here. Also, even if you do hit your flush, lets say, you might not want to stick it all on on this paired board and he might not really put much money in if he has a baby flush type hand.