Top pair decision against wide range.

Aggromang · #1 10-01-2007, 02:46 PM

Villain is a LAG who plays mid pair and draws aggressively.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Should I fold here?

River: (8.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

My question is if I put villain on a pretty wide range of Ax, QK - Q9, heart draw on flop, is it correct to cap the flop???

I ran pokerstove and got a 59% equity against that range on the flop. My equity dropped to 33% on the turn. I'm pretty new to this whole concept of equity, and I want to know how i can use this info for decisions on every streets.

jba · #2 10-01-2007, 02:55 PM

look at your eq against that range on a 2c river vs this one. count how many on each side. maybe wait and raise the turn based on that.

numbnuts007 · #3 10-01-2007, 03:00 PM

This is a really tough hand. After the heart falls on the turn I don't think there are many hands you beat, unless you think villian is capable of capping the flop with a pair of Q's or a pocket pair. It looks like you're only ahead of A3-A7, not a very wide range. I'm usually a call down monkey, but after thinking about this for awhile I think you can lay it down on the turn.

On the flop this is a hand I like to call down rather than cap. I like to let villian keep betting if he's behind and it keeps me from losing more if i'm behind. The flush draw on board goes against this, but against a LAG I would prefer to get to show down cheaply or else i'm afraid i'd fold the best hand. Taking this line keeps you out of the turn decision for better or worse, the flop cap might give us enough information to lay it down on the turn, but most turn cards have us calling down anyway.

Catsailor · #4 10-01-2007, 03:04 PM

What is your image at table? Have you been ag blind stealing? If so, this could mean he is playing back with a lot more hands, I think I wouldn't 3b flop, but go into call down mode. (Is that too weak tight?)

danzasmack · #5 10-01-2007, 03:18 PM

As far as the hand goes I think you can fold the turn but I want to talk about this part of your post:

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a LAG who plays mid pair and draws aggressively.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls,

[/ QUOTE ]

1st is the read: "Plays mid-pair and draws aggressively"

Great start on developing a read. You're basically developing a range for a player based on his action. Only thing is you really have to be careful IMO when you do this. Were these spots when he was aggro when he was pfr or when he was a caller pf? Was he in position or OOP? Kinda matters a lot and you should keep that in mind. For example, he opens, you defend K8ss. Flop is KJ2r. You c/r he 3-bets you call. Turn T you c/c. River 2 you c/c and he shows AJo. Way different than a spot where he defends J8o the same way.

Again, just stuff to think about.

Anyway - what I really wanted to talk about was the villains CC in the SB. This is the biggest red flag of "omg plz to be pwning me" in SSSH IMO. This range is so set with hands a players wants to play but doesn't want to 3-bet. It is REALLY easy to pin this down. Look at hands you're getting cold called with when you open in the CO, and hands you're getting 3-bet with. Most likely he has a flush draw here on this flop unless you HAVE seen him go nutso with mid pair OOP when he is not PFRer. Also what is PFRR with AX in this spot? Just calling A5o or 3-betting it? I mean these are things that when you can learn them about a player, and it's NOT hard to, holy mackeral. Keep in mind though as your ATSB increases a good player in the SB (lolo get up but you can't always) will adjust his SB 3-bet %. In which case I still don't think I show this hand down.

Anyway, apologize for the ramble just something I like to talk about.

Aggromang · #6 10-01-2007, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
look at your eq against that range on a 2c river vs this one. count how many on each side. maybe wait and raise the turn based on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jba, My eq against that board is 25%, and with 2c river it's 39%. I'm not sure how this helps my decision on the turn.. explain plz?

Absolution · #7 10-01-2007, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is the biggest red flag of "omg plz to be pwning me" in SSSH IMO. This range is so set with hands a players wants to play but doesn't want to 3-bet. It is REALLY easy to pin this down. Look at hands you're getting cold called with when you open in the CO, and hands you're getting 3-bet with. Most likely he has a flush draw here on this flop unless you HAVE seen him go nutso with mid pair OOP when he is not PFRer. Also what is PFRR with AX in this spot? Just calling A5o or 3-betting it? I mean these are things that when you can learn them about a player, and it's NOT hard to, holy mackeral. Keep in mind though as your ATSB increases a good player in the SB (lolo get up but you can't always) will adjust his SB 3-bet %. In which case I still don't think I show this hand down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I call these hands the 'pretty hands'. These are the hands that bad players play when they aren't supposed to, but they can't get away from them because they are pretty. It varies from player to player, but generally include:

Broadway: Things like KJo, KTo, K9s, QJo, QTo, QTs, and JTo of course (JTs is usually good for a 3-bet) etc...

Aces: Basically any A that they don't like to 3-bet with, which probably includes anything below A9o or A8s for a typical LAG.

Small PP: These are the irresistible to the bad player. Pairs make sets, and sets are good. They'll call 3 cold with these most of the time.

Suited connectors obviously.

The prettiest hands in the deck:
JTo
22-55
98s

For some reason they love JTo for 2 bets cold. This prettiness usually continues post-flop as well.

Aggromang · #8 10-01-2007, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I call these hands the 'pretty hands'. These are the hands that bad players play when they aren't supposed to, but they can't get away from them because they are pretty. It varies from player to player, but generally include:

Broadway: Things like KJo, KTo, K9s, QJo, QTo, QTs, and JTo of course (JTs is usually good for a 3-bet) etc...

Aces: Basically any A that they don't like to 3-bet with, which probably includes anything below A9o or A8s for a typical LAG.

Small PP: These are the irresistible to the bad player. Pairs make sets, and sets are good. They'll call 3 cold with these most of the time.

Suited connectors obviously.

The prettiest hands in the deck:
JTo
22-55
98s

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you referring to the sb calling 2 bets with these range of hands in a 6 max game??? I'm only asking because I almost always call 2 bets with small pp and most Ax in small blind... and often 3 bet with small pp in position and cold call 2 bet with AXs. A serious leak in my game????

Absolution · #9 10-01-2007, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I call these hands the 'pretty hands'. These are the hands that bad players play when they aren't supposed to, but they can't get away from them because they are pretty. It varies from player to player, but generally include:

Broadway: Things like KJo, KTo, K9s, QJo, QTo, QTs, and JTo of course (JTs is usually good for a 3-bet) etc...

Aces: Basically any A that they don't like to 3-bet with, which probably includes anything below A9o or A8s for a typical LAG.

Small PP: These are the irresistible to the bad player. Pairs make sets, and sets are good. They'll call 3 cold with these most of the time.

Suited connectors obviously.

The prettiest hands in the deck:
JTo
22-55
98s

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you referring to the sb calling 2 bets with these range of hands in a 6 max game??? I'm only asking because I almost always call 2 bets with small pp and most Ax in small blind... and often 3 bet with small pp in position and cold call 2 bet with AXs. A serious leak in my game????

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely. Raising the small pp is okay if the guy has a wide range and you can play well against him post-flop. Note though, I'm talking about being the first cold caller. This all changes when there are more callers. But, Ax is a crappy hand against a raise, even from an aggressive player and especially in the SB. Cold calling 2 bets with small pp is the worst of the 3 options. Raise them up to get it heads up or fold. By calling you just let the BB in and then you play for set value without the ability to make enough post flop even when you do hit.

inferno · #10 10-02-2007, 03:45 AM

woah do not 3bet this on the flop, guess you cant fold on the river anymore since so much bets went in but I would like to fold it right there