200NL Party, bluhrg, stupid hand

[Melchiades]

This hand tilted me badly. Villain is 20/12 over a decent sample. Why doesn't he push preflop? What the hell is his range here? Am I supposed to push flop, am I being pushed of a split here? Hyachahahaha.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $198.00
BB: $200.00
UTG: $223.85
MP: $203.10
CO: $229.35
BTN: $602.83

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
4 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $27.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $79.00</font>, BB calls $52.00

Flop: ($158) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BB bets all-in for $121.00</font>, Hero folds

Pot Size: $279.00

[dregal]

LOL it annoys the [censored] out of me too when they just dont shove pre flop.

I think a 20/12 shows up here with a legit hand always. I think c/f flop is fine.

[PartysOver]

what is your goal by raising to $79 rather than pushing preflop?

Just ask yourself.

Now, on Axx and Kxx flops you're obviously pushing and villain gets to play perfectly (right?) on flops that miss you, you get stuck in this really meh situation (right?)

Just push pre

[Michaelson]

[ QUOTE ]
what is your goal by raising to $79 rather than pushing preflop?

Just ask yourself.

Now, on Axx and Kxx flops you're obviously pushing and villain gets to play perfectly (right?) on flops that miss you, you get stuck in this really meh situation (right?)

Just push pre

[/ QUOTE ]

You raise to $79 so that you can raise smaller w/ big pairs as well. Not saying a push is terrible or anything, but neither option is clearly better and it depends a lot on shania, I think. And on an A or K flop shoving is not mandatory.

This spot does suck balls, though. Shoving and check/folding are our two options, and they're both awful.

[Melchiades]

[ QUOTE ]
what is your goal by raising to $79 rather than pushing preflop?
Just ask yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not pushing AA/KK preflop. He probably knows that. I am raising to this amount with hands I wanna get it in with and with bluffs that I fold to a push. I'm giving him a chanced to get involved with hands I dominate. He will not call a push with AQ/AJ, but may push them. I wanna be able to repop people with 56s and other trash since people fold to the 4-bet very often. Pushing preflop here and everyone and their dog will (correctly) put me on AK. Pushing is ok, but I really don't wanna play AK one way and big pairs/bluffs another way. lets my oppponents play too perfectly.

[Michaelson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is your goal by raising to $79 rather than pushing preflop?
Just ask yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not pushing AA/KK preflop. He probably knows that. I am raising to this amount with hands I wanna get it in with and with bluffs that I fold to a push. I'm giving him a chanced to get involved with hands I dominate. He will not call a push with AQ/AJ, but may push them. I wanna be able to repop people with 56s and other trash since people fold to the 4-bet very often. Pushing preflop here and everyone and their dog will (correctly) put me on AK. Pushing is ok, but I really don't wanna play AK one way and big pairs/bluffs another way. lets my oppponents play too perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's almost always bad 4-betting then folding to a shove, particularly for metagame, but that's based more on a gut feeling than it is well thought out ideas.

[Melchiades]

Considering how often people fold I don't think thats true. People are pussys, they don't 5-bet all in with a wide enough range to make calling with 76s good I think. If they start doing it, I guess I'll need to start calling.

Also why would it be bad for metagame? If someone sees me fold to a shove they are that much more likely to start pushing a wider range vs my 4 bet, and considering how often I have a monster when I 4 bet I don't mind that at all. People beliveing they have FE over my 4-bet suits me just fine, I'm a nit at heart so when I 4-bet I'm much more likely to have a monster than something I will fold.

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is your goal by raising to $79 rather than pushing preflop?
Just ask yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not pushing AA/KK preflop. He probably knows that. I am raising to this amount with hands I wanna get it in with and with bluffs that I fold to a push. I'm giving him a chanced to get involved with hands I dominate. He will not call a push with AQ/AJ, but may push them. I wanna be able to repop people with 56s and other trash since people fold to the 4-bet very often. Pushing preflop here and everyone and their dog will (correctly) put me on AK. Pushing is ok, but I really don't wanna play AK one way and big pairs/bluffs another way. lets my oppponents play too perfectly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's almost always bad 4-betting then folding to a shove, particularly for metagame, but that's based more on a gut feeling than it is well thought out ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely not true. &lt;3 small 4bets.