Live 5/10 Hand -- JJ

[gaming_mouse]

My friend told me about this hand and I thought it was pretty interesting. Good example of "what does this tell mean?"

Villain here seems pretty bad, seems to be steaming a bit. Complains alot, even when he wins. When raking a pot says stuff like, "When I win I gotta sweat it out, for you it's always easy." Hero has raised him out of pots a few times recently as well.

One possibly relevant hand that hero had 3b in position PF, villain half-pot/folded AQ on a Kxx board, threw his hand face up and cursed that he never hits. Hero showed his AK.

On to the hand.

Villain limps, another limp, Hero raises JJ to 65, BB calls, villain now re-raises to 200 (hadn't seen him do this before), Hero calls, BB calls. Both Hero and villain started the hand with about 1300.

Flop: 3 3 9 rainbow

Villain leads 200 into a pot of about 700. Hero, having seen villain weak-lead fold at least twice before, raises to 500, BB folds, Villain calls.

Heads up now and before turn comes villain says, "Bet 300 blind."

What's your move?

[Sykes]

whats my move?

FOLDING EVERYWHERE

[Guruman]

Is this so easy sykes? What specifically are you getting out of this tell?

thx!

[Sykes]

what tell?

seriously, do you know where the hell you are in the hand at any point in time?

no?

seems like folding time..

also.. bet small flop and call raise and bet turn blind is 99% of the time a monster and JJ is [censored] smashed beyond belief.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
what tell?

seriously, do you know where the hell you are in the hand at any point in time?

no?

seems like folding time..

also.. bet small flop and call raise and bet turn blind is 99% of the time a monster and JJ is [censored] smashed beyond belief.

[/ QUOTE ]

plz put him on a hand... you think he lrr 99 PF? If he has AA, why doesn't he push the flop? if you think he is suckering us in so that we'll stack off something we'd fold to a push, consider that this kind of thinking may be beyond this opponent. remember he is really not very good.

[Sykes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what tell?

seriously, do you know where the hell you are in the hand at any point in time?

no?

seems like folding time..

also.. bet small flop and call raise and bet turn blind is 99% of the time a monster and JJ is [censored] smashed beyond belief.

[/ QUOTE ]

plz put him on a hand... you think he lrr 99 PF? If he has AA, why doesn't he push the flop? if you think he is suckering us in so that we'll stack off something we'd fold to a push, consider that this kind of thinking may be beyond this opponent. remember he is really not very good.

[/ QUOTE ]

why doesn't he push the flop?

maybe because we fold in 2 seconds?

also note that after he bets 300 blind, he has 300 left (1300 to start - 200 pf - 500 flop - 300 blind turn = 300)!

this kind of bet smells of plz pay me off.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]


why doesn't he push the flop?

maybe because we fold in 2 seconds?

also note that after he bets 300 blind, he has 300 left (1300 to start - 200 pf - 500 flop - 300 blind turn = 300)!

this kind of bet smells of plz pay me off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sykes I will admit that was my first reaction when my friend told me the hand.

I then said I guess it's also vaguely possible that there is only 1 level of thinking going on here. He is weak and trying to be strong, and in his dumb donkish mind the blind bet seems like a cheaper and maybe stronger seeming bluff. Remember that this guy likes to bet weak as a bluff... we've seen that a few times.

Given the description of villain, you must at least consider this other interpretation, and I think thats why the hand is actually pretty tough and interesting.

[DeathDonkey]

I'll tell you this - if we aren't folding, shoving in the dark would DEFINITELY help the turn be a jack.

-DeathDonkey

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
I then said I guess it's also vaguely possible that there is only 1 level of thinking going on here. He is weak and trying to be strong, and in his dumb donkish mind the blind bet seems like a cheaper and maybe stronger seeming bluff. Remember that this guy likes to bet weak as a bluff... we've seen that a few times.

Given the description of villain, you must at least consider this other interpretation, and I think thats why the hand is actually pretty tough and interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]
On the contrary, I think that simplifies things. It's now basically a pure pot-odds calculation. The turn pot is 1700, and since there's no way you guys aren't going to be playing for stacks if you choose to continue, you might as well ignore his 300 darkbet and just figure on investing your 600 to win his 600 plus the 1700 pot = 2300. So if you think he's got air enough to justify calling with essentially 4-1 pot odds, then go ahead and play on.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]

On the contrary, I think that simplifies things. It's now basically a pure pot-odds calculation. The turn pot is 1700, and since there's no way you guys aren't going to be playing for stacks if you choose to continue, you might as well ignore his 300 darkbet and just figure on investing your 600 to win his 600 plus the 1700 pot = 2300. So if you think he's got air enough to justify calling with essentially 4-1 pot odds, then go ahead and play on.

[/ QUOTE ]

marchron,

this is a nice clarification of the problem in a way, but it doesn't make it any less tough imo. we still have to weigh the chance that he IS indeed thinking on higher level than his previous play would indicate, or is simply chancing his way into a good play because he is confused. what does the dark bet mean in his case? adding up the intangibles to a number is not easy.

and there's more i forgot to post in the OP. apparently while my buddy was verbally debating if he should call the turn, this guy was smiling and talking. he said, "listen, i got you , but i want you to call" or something to that effect.