How on earth does this guy win? (low content rant)

PokerBob · #1 08-17-2007, 07:34 PM

I have not played online in ages, but farted around today for a bit in the stars 10/20 games. I remember that Reshef was one of the biggest winners in the 10/20 short games, but I cannot understand how. He sucks.

Exhibit A:

1 limp, I raise the button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Resheftard calls in the BB with red A3o, limper calls.

Flop 3ways: black QQ2r
Resheftard donks. Stupid.

Exhibit B:

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Resheftard calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Resheftard calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Resheftard raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Kh As (high card, ace).
Button has Th 9h (high card, queen).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.75 BB. 

again, stupid.

Scary_Tiger · #2 08-17-2007, 07:44 PM

By not folding the best hand. Clearly.

POKERSTARS GAME #11531527771: HOLD'EM LIMIT ($30/$60) - 2007/08/17 - 02:54:16 (ET)
Table 'Polyxena' 10-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: boostreet ($282 in chips)
Seat 2: mortimer755 ($1080 in chips)
Seat 3: flukier ($633 in chips)
Seat 4: sacker ($3087 in chips)
Seat 5: Simple Simon ($2212.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Scary_Tiger ($1569 in chips)
Seat 7: arad69 ($1047 in chips)
Seat 8: Reshef ($672 in chips)
Seat 9: KUDUZ ($1138 in chips)
Seat 10: krazieass ($312.50 in chips)
Scary_Tiger: posts small blind $15
arad69: posts big blind $30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Scary_Tiger [6c 8s]
Reshef: raises $30 to $60
KUDUZ: folds
krazieass: raises $30 to $90
boostreet: folds
mortimer755: folds
flukier: folds
sacker: folds
Simple Simon: folds
Scary_Tiger: folds
arad69: folds
Reshef: calls $30
*** FLOP *** [6d Ks Jc]
Reshef: checks
krazieass: bets $30
Reshef: calls $30
*** TURN *** [6d Ks Jc] [6h]
Reshef: checks
krazieass: bets $60
Reshef: calls $60
*** RIVER *** [6d Ks Jc 6h] [7s]
Reshef: checks
krazieass: bets $60
Reshef: calls $60
*** SHOW DOWN ***
krazieass: shows [Td Ad] (a pair of Sixes)
Reshef: shows [3s 3d] (two pair, Sixes and Threes)
Reshef collected $522 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $525 | Rake $3
Board [6d Ks Jc 6h 7s]
Seat 1: boostreet folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: mortimer755 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: flukier folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: sacker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Simple Simon (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Scary_Tiger (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: arad69 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Reshef showed [3s 3d] and won ($522) with two pair, Sixes and Threes
Seat 9: KUDUZ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: krazieass showed [Td Ad] and lost with a pair of Sixes

I'm not a big fan of these posts criticizing someone's play. You don't have to be world class to beat the Stars 10/20 by any means.

gaming_mouse · #3 08-17-2007, 07:50 PM

Hey Bob,

How come you don't play online anymore?

As for the hands, Hand 2 seems like a reasonable semi-bluff on the turn. Do you have a problem with his river follow through?

I agree Hand 1 is more questionable. But even there I don't think we can pass final judgment without knowing how he balances such donks in other situations. I wouldn't be shocked if someone had a donk heavy flop style that they made work.

Anyway I don't see these hands as evidence of "omg what a fish no way he can possibly win," even if that may be the case based on other hands.

Scary_Tiger · #4 08-17-2007, 08:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway I don't see these hands as evidence of "omg what a fish no way he can possibly win," even if that may be the case based on other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take the being up 1700 bets as evidence to the contrary actually.

kiddo · #5 08-17-2007, 08:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As for the hands, Hand 2 seems like a reasonable semi-bluff on the turn. Do you have a problem with his river follow through?

I agree Hand 1 is more questionable. But even there I don't think we can pass final judgment without knowing how he balances such donks in other situations. I wouldn't be shocked if someone had a donk heavy flop style that they made work.

Anyway I don't see these hands as evidence of "omg what a fish no way he can possibly win," even if that may be the case based on other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with all above.

Donking Ahigh if our hero was trying to isolate a bad player with his preflopraise is pretty ok, at least if he donks QQQ in same spot, and semibluffing in hand 2 and then follow up with riverbet is also ok, if not what u do every time u got a straightdraw. Maybe this guy just thinks our Hero folds a bit to easy.

I got a 60/40 who multitables who just keep on sitting there day after day. He is pretty ok postflop, much better then u would think, but I just cant understand how he survives raising 40 of all hands he gets. (its normally 5handed, when it gets down to 3handed he really isnt fun to paly against)

PokerBob · #6 08-17-2007, 08:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Bob,

How come you don't play online anymore?

As for the hands, Hand 2 seems like a reasonable semi-bluff on the turn. Do you have a problem with his river follow through?

I agree Hand 1 is more questionable. But even there I don't think we can pass final judgment without knowing how he balances such donks in other situations. I wouldn't be shocked if someone had a donk heavy flop style that they made work.

Anyway I don't see these hands as evidence of "omg what a fish no way he can possibly win," even if that may be the case based on other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess i just know he doesnt have anything when he takes that stupid line with T9hh, and i assume he knows i know that. but then again, maybe i am overestimating him.

as far as thinking he is a fish that never wins, i guess i just recall some other hands that he played really stupidly vs. me (and of course got there), and this recent stint of hands reminded me of it. whatever. if he wins, good for him.

PokerBob · #7 08-17-2007, 08:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for the hands, Hand 2 seems like a reasonable semi-bluff on the turn. Do you have a problem with his river follow through?

I agree Hand 1 is more questionable. But even there I don't think we can pass final judgment without knowing how he balances such donks in other situations. I wouldn't be shocked if someone had a donk heavy flop style that they made work.

Anyway I don't see these hands as evidence of "omg what a fish no way he can possibly win," even if that may be the case based on other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with all above.

Donking Ahigh if our hero was trying to isolate a bad player with his preflopraise is pretty ok, at least if he donks QQQ in same spot, and semibluffing in hand 2 and then follow up with riverbet is also ok, if not what u do every time u got a straightdraw. Maybe this guy just thinks our Hero folds a bit to easy.

I got a 60/40 who multitables who just keep on sitting there day after day. He is pretty ok postflop, much better then u would think, but I just cant understand how he survives raising 40 of all hands he gets. (its normally 5handed, when it gets down to 3handed he really isnt fun to paly against)

[/ QUOTE ]

why would he donk a-high there? i am never ever folding a better hand, and am going to continuation bet a ton there, so if he thinks his hand is best he should c/r that flop and get rid of the other guy. betting is just dumb.

as far as him thinking I fold too much, I haven't played with him in ages, so i doubt he knows anything about me. his line in that T9hh hand is atrocious. imo he misplayed it on every single street.

PartyGirlUK · #8 08-17-2007, 09:03 PM

Neither are terrible.

joker122 · #9 08-17-2007, 10:35 PM

those are the worst reshef hands you can find? hand 2 isn't even that bad. that said, i <3 when he takes shots at the stars 50/1.

kiddo · #10 08-18-2007, 04:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why would he donk a-high there? i am never ever folding a better hand, and am going to continuation bet a ton there, so if he thinks his hand is best he should c/r that flop and get rid of the other guy. betting is just dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checkraising flop and betting turn is a 4SB investment. Betting flop and he can hope for 1) bad player (if he was bad) calls and u got to fold if u got nothing or 2) u both fold or 3) one of u or both call and he hit Ace on turn or 4) one of u or both call with hands that are worse.

As u said u are never folding a better hand and if he thinks he is ahead he should checkraise. But thats really not why a donk isnt that extremly bad, its not cause he is ahead most of the time. Its cause its a cheap way to find out if he was ahead this time. Its a 1SB investment to win 7SB. If we think checkraising is to expensive and check-calling gets us nowhere, a donk-fold could be the solution.

In this hand, I guess u raise flop or just call, and he is done with his hand for 1SB, a checkraise and turnbet with u calling would have been 4 times more expensive and Im not sure he is folding a lot of better hands for those 3SB or giving up to easily with a hand that actually was ahead cause he only spent 1SB instead of 4SB, is he?

I love to donk in this spot if I hit trips from the blinds so I need to donk a few other hands 2. If I was in blinds in this hand and donked and u knew I would do this with trips, hoping to trap guy in between, there are a ton of hands in ur range that u now got to fold.

Now it looks like I defend his move and says its the only way to go. But Im just saying that a donk here could be a move from a thinking player.