Emotional Affairs

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
Saying you have no control over your emotions and behavior is equally crap.

I find using genetics as an excuse for personal behavior dodgy, to say the least.


[/ QUOTE ]

I said absolute nothing of the sort. You're inventing things now to win. Step back, breathe. AFFECTS, not controls.

I said it affects your decision making.

I also never said it excuses your behavior. You're applying moral statements now. I can claim I made a bad decision in part due to a bad mental state. That's not an excuse, it's part of the conditions at the time. It's like saying I slipped because it was icy. Still my damn fault I slipped. It's not an excuse, it's a part of what's going on at the time it happened.

[Blarg]

You're losing me here, and attributing to me things I did not say. I didn't say people behave identically. I've been saying the opposite. I say people make choices, and that they are responsible for them. Choices are individual, not a matter of genetics.

Regarding excuses, and whether you would rather they be thought of as explanations, the main thrust is not what words we become attached when characterizing this particular discussion, but whether anyone would or should care which ones we use. Practically speaking, we all face temptation. What matters in the end, after we have done something for which the idea of thinking about an excuse even arises, is, did we act on it. I don't think there's anything unique to the situation of the guy who succumbs to temptation versus the guy who does not, except character. It's not like the only guy who doesn't succumb is the one who never faces temptation! Facing temptation is not the issue; it's what you do about it.

Nobody particularly cares about our hormones, either, and we probably shouldn't ask them to. They formed a relationship with us knowing in advance that we had them. Likely, they wouldn't have done so if they suspected we might play the hormone card if we stepped out of line.

You were responding to a post talking about cheating by referring to emotions getting the better of you. I think that's a miserable excuse for cheating, and that you are painting the cheater as a sort of hapless victim himself. I think that's a cop-out. I doubt many people would appreciate that sort of explanation from their partner, or give it much credit. And that seems right to me.

I'm not sure what else you're on about, but if disagreeing with a post I make is enough to make you lose all respect for me, I expect it was not only inevitable that it happen anyway sooner or later, or that the respect was never there to begin with. Which is okay too; it's just an internet forum. And this is just one thread and a few posts we're talking about. I don't think it's worth getting worked up about to that level, but if you do, so be it. My respect for you hasn't changed yet, but you can dislike or disrespect me all you like.

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
EMPLOYEE: I didn't mean to surprise Jeannie with a kiss in the storeroom today and grind my junk into her. Sorry you're getting sued. My testosterone level has been really high for the last few days. Here's a note from my doctor ...

ME: You're fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually a horrible example. If he actually has a verifiable medical reason and you fire him, you're in for a huge lawsuit.

If he had tourettes syndrome and swore at an inappropriate time, do you hold him to blame?

You're living in black and white world apparently where people are in total control at all times. Makes it easy to judge people I suppose.

[daveT]

Your right, I was confrontational. I guess my emotions got the better of me. Talking in a reasonable tone is usually a better way to get people to listen.

Speaking of emotions, this thread is a great illustration of emotional binding. I am so emotionally bound by my own thoughts that I was deeply offended by what I was reading, and I am deeply offended that people have the audacity to write, read and believe such stuff.

You are so emotionally bound by your thoughts that you are not able to see Blarg's nor my perspective. I don't understand how you can agree with everything I am writing, but not agree with the very base of my argument.

You use poker as an example? I may make one bad decision from tilt. But that tilt is something that has lasted about five or six seconds. There is a far difference between premeditation and "accidental cheating." For one, you don't look at a woman and drop your pants on first meeting. I don't understand the correlation. I don't tilt for a week on end. At some point I am able to stop and control myself.

Why jail someone for robbing a bank? There emotions got the best of them about being poor. Emotional or not, the perpetrator went through dozens of steps to get to the point of holding a gun in a teller's face. Emotional or not, this guy has to stop and think, "hey, this pretty f* dumb." But he didn't.

Cheating is not an instantaneous occasion. I guess if you really have this little self control, then you are very drunk, or we simply are not going to understand each other.

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that's a miserable excuse for cheating, and that you are painting the cheater as a sort of hapless victim himself. I think that's a cop-out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, you're painting black and white. Hapless victim? I never said anything remotely close to that. Poor decision making aggravated by a particular emotional state, yes, I said that.

[DrewDevil]

Before I got married, I had sex with many women and flirted with many more. Some became friends, some became lovers, some became nothing. Usually, if I was attracted to the woman, I was trying to get her into bed.

Now I'm married and I don't have sex with other women and I don't flirt with other women. I have some women friends, but I only see them when it's "all 4 of us," i.e., including my wife and her husband. I avoid these kinds of situations because my wife doesn't / wouldn't like it. She gets jealous even though she trusts me, and I don't want to hurt her feelings, even though I miss those interactions with other women.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EMPLOYEE: I didn't mean to surprise Jeannie with a kiss in the storeroom today and grind my junk into her. Sorry you're getting sued. My testosterone level has been really high for the last few days. Here's a note from my doctor ...

ME: You're fired.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's actually a horrible example. If he actually has a verifiable medical reason and you fire him, you're in for a huge lawsuit.

If he had tourettes syndrome and swore at an inappropriate time, do you hold him to blame?

You're living in black and white world apparently where people are in total control at all times. Makes it easy to judge people I suppose.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding, right?

Talk about black and white. I was making a joke, and you're flying over the top. You're also getting extremely defensive and working solidly into the confrontational. I guess we probably can't profitably share in this discussion together anymore.

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a far difference between premeditation and "accidental cheating."

[/ QUOTE ]

I never, ever said "accidental cheating". You're imposing your viewpoint on my statements rather than taking them as I said them.

Cheating isn't accidental. It's a choice. The choice may be hampered (or helped, depending on which way you're looking at it) by various conditions. Understandable perhaps in certain lights, though that doesn't make them any less accountable. People make bad long term choices all the time (it takes a while to eat your way to 300 lbs, for example).

[bogey1]

[ QUOTE ]
I was making a joke, and you're flying over the top. You're also getting extremely defensive and working solidly into the confrontational. I guess we probably can't profitably share in this discussion together anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

And asking me about punching my mother in the face and running small children off the road wasn't confrontational or over the top?

[Mr. Philosophy]

[ QUOTE ]
Before I got married, I had sex with many women and flirted with many more. Some became friends, some became lovers, some became nothing. Usually, if I was attracted to the woman, I was trying to get her into bed.

Now I'm married and I don't have sex with other women and I don't flirt with other women. I have some women friends, but I only see them when it's "all 4 of us," i.e., including my wife and her husband. I avoid these kinds of situations because my wife doesn't / wouldn't like it. She gets jealous even though she trusts me, and I don't want to hurt her feelings, even though I miss those interactions with other women.

[/ QUOTE ]

But does your wife not flirt with other men? As a man you are in a position where to start some sort of a relationship with a woman you need to be the aggressor. Therefore you can avoid flirting more easily because you can simply limit interactions with other females.

Women on the other hand get hit on by guys all the time. Thus the odds significantly increase of a woman being able to form some sort of close bond with a man just due to the sheer number of them trying to gain her attention.

Just think about if everyday several women were hitting on you. While you might be likely to reject advances from most of them, what would happened if eventually you found one of these women to be rather captivating? This is an issue most women face and I think makes it more difficult for a woman not to cheat.

I think like yourself if I do get married I could stop flirting with women, but I also know I won't have women throwing themselves at me everyday. If somehow this did occur I can say it would be really hard for me not to stray.