Play a Hand With the Masters #3 Results and Panel Comments

[grandgnu]

I don't view risking my tournament life for an additional 600 chips as a positive move.

And it is something to consider when playing a tournament, it's something that you should take into account.

I think you have more to lose in the long run by betting in this spot than you stand to win.

The problem I think the majority of respondants faced was that Villian had not adequately narrowed his hand ranges down by his actions.

There were so many potential holdings he could have. He's min-check raising the flop. Does he have a straight draw, a flush draw, a pair, a pair + draw, etc? We just don't know.

The turn card doesn't appear to have helped him, and now he checks. Is he going for a check-raise a 2nd time? (I've seen this done online before). Instead, he check-calls a large bet. With a donk, this could still mean he's drawing to a straight or flush, has a pair or has a pair plus draw, etc.

And that river card completes the flush draw, or we may have already been beat by a made straight. We know how donks love to play any soooooted! cards, no matter how weak they may be.

[KneeCo]

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i can't imagine villain has us beat here nearly ever, so i guess a bet must be good.

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This is a complete fallacy.

I agree that the villain is behind on the river the vast majority of the time, but that in no way means the Hero should bet.
Even if I had some magical power, that told me, with absolute certainty, that the villain had TT 90% of the time at the river, and had us beat the rest of the time, I check it down. In Hero's position on the river, thinking 'it's nearly a lock that I'm ahead that means I should bet' is bad poker. The real issue is whether Hero can get a call by a hand that he beats. I just don't think TT calls often enough here to make the push the right move.
A good player probably isn't getting married to his pocket pair here, and bad players tend to be even more afraid of flush draws than good players.

[CardSharpCook]

I can't get past the humor of you repeatedly refering to this player as a donk.

Learn to read hands. Learn to "risk your tourney life" just to pick up a few more chips. Villian has been quite explicit with his holding. Or just keep complaining how the "donks" always draw out on you. Your choice.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't get past the humor of you repeatedly refering to this player as a donk.

Learn to read hands. Learn to "risk your tourney life" just to pick up a few more chips. Villian has been quite explicit with his holding. Or just keep complaining how the "donks" always draw out on you. Your choice.

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So, you think that this player isn't a donk? You think Villian played his hand well?

Also, just because you happened to be correct in this instance does not mean your "read" will pan out in future situations like this. The majority of 2+2 posters and 2 out of 3 experts believed that checking the river was the best play.

[CardSharpCook]

Are there changes I would make in Villian's play? Yes. I'd bet the turn. It allows you to see where you are. Though it is unlikely that Strassa has the heart draw, we can get him to fold A8 with a nice turn bet.

Now, stop saying, "the majority of... and 2 out of 3..." These posters are ignoring the action and are not listening to the villian. In the river thread, I stated that with 92% certainty he has a possible calling hand that isn't a flush. Why? Because villian's actions were consistent with a nice pair OR, I cautioned, Q9. His actions were inconsistent with a flush draw. Your counter to this argument is, "well, he's a donk Who knows WHAT he has???" If you do not respect your opponents you will never beat them, no matter how bad you THINK they are. Hell, this is true in any type of poker. If, on my limit tables I don't respect the 72/34/3.2 fish, he WILL beat me. If I don't try to understand his thought porcessess, I will lose bets either be spewing or by missing value bets. LISTEN TO YOUR OPPONENTS!!! THEY TRY VERY HARD TO TELL YOU WHAT THEIR HAND IS! DO NOT IGNORE THIS INFORMATION!

[EverettKings]

What was this about 'having respect for the villain'? Did we miss a read or is this just a read you developed through the hand?

VN thread

[NoahSD]

This one turned out great, btw, Lloyd.

[CardSharpCook]

Yeah, couldn't agree more. Love this series and this episode was particularily good.

[A_PLUS]

No offense bro, but if you really think the '2 of 3 2+2 experts agree' line is a good way of thinking about things, you are in serious trouble.

leaving out the pure statistical nonesense of the line, who F#^$&ing cares if ZJ and Shaniac agree with you. I think they will both admit they have been wrong before.

If you want to me taken seriously, you have to make arguements that stand up on their own merits.

[Hotrod0823]

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The real issue is whether Hero can get a call by a hand that he beats. I just don't think TT calls often enough here to make the push the right move.

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What about JJ, KK, AA, AQ, A9?