NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

[NYTyler]

I just got back from AC last night. I was thinking of going to the club today and then I logged on and saw this. I am thinking that now I will not frequent these places as it is looking really risky to go there with the chance of something like this happening. I agree that it is somewhat of a personal choice to go there or not but at the same time, these places are off the map so to speak by being underground. Therefore they really can't have armed security or enough and adequate security (metal detectors and such) in order to keep everyone safe. If they had armed security that would attract attention to them and they are "underground" so they can't do that because they don't want to attract attention to themselves. This is the third club that I have known that has gotten robbed and it is looking really unsafe to frequent these places. I am really happy that I was not there to witness this.

Frank looks familiar and I think I may have played with him once or twice but I can't be sure. My condolences to his family and anyone close to him.

I hope this sort of thing never happens again.

[AKHobbes]

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It's funny. Years ago, I was completely against the raids by the vice squad. But now the clubs need to give up. For someone to lose their life whether it was an accident or not is unacceptable.

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For someone to lose their life playing football is acceptable? To lose their life skydiving is acceptable? To lose their life flying a small private plan is ok? To lose their life scuba diving is ok?

There are risks to EVERYTHING we do. One death out of decades of playing makes it a nasty shock, not a reason to go post-9/11 insane.

You may make the decision regarding your own life and safety and play only in AC if that's your choice. Please don't make that choice on behalf of EVERYBODY. (Course your odds of getting killed driving to/from AC may actually be greater than the odds of getting killed from a poker robbery...but that's a topic for a different thread.)

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You've taken what I've said out of context. My point is that the clubs have become riskier. Which is why I made the comment that every club I know has been robbed at gunpoint. The shutting down of clubs is now about public safety and not about gambling and rights to recreation. That's my point. I'm sorry if I've offended any club owner, but that's just my opinion.

[bav]

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It's funny. Years ago, I was completely against the raids by the vice squad. But now the clubs need to give up. For someone to lose their life whether it was an accident or not is unacceptable.

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For someone to lose their life playing football is acceptable? To lose their life skydiving is acceptable? To lose their life flying a small private plan is ok? To lose their life scuba diving is ok?

There are risks to EVERYTHING we do. One death out of decades of playing makes it a nasty shock, not a reason to go post-9/11 insane.

You may make the decision regarding your own life and safety and play only in AC if that's your choice. Please don't make that choice on behalf of EVERYBODY. (Course your odds of getting killed driving to/from AC may actually be greater than the odds of getting killed from a poker robbery...but that's a topic for a different thread.)

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You've taken what I've said out of context. My point is that the clubs have become riskier. Which is why I made the comment that every club I know has been robbed at gunpoint. The shutting down of clubs is now about public safety and not about gambling and rights to recreation. That's my point. I'm sorry if I've offended any club owner, but that's just my opinion.

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I don't think I took it outta context. That's exactly my point... shutting down the clubs out of concerns for "public safety" because there's been one death in 30 years is reactionary. That'd be like shutting down every amusement park in the country because someone died on a roller coaster. I just don't happen to believe it should be yours or the DA's or whomever's decision that what I'm voluntarily engaging in is too unsafe to allow. Alas, yes it is very likely to be used as an excuse to try to clamp down even more.

'Course, legalizing it so it can be done in the open with real security and regular visits by police would also solve the problem. But we can't condone sinful activities like poker.

[AKHobbes]

This is the reality of the situation: the NYC clubs aren't safe. Your analogy isn't the same. When someone dies from an amusement park ride accident, that ride IS shut down. I'm not advocating that every poker club in America should be closed. I'm not condemning poker. I'm not saying that poker is an unsafe activity. I'm saying that NYC club poker is in an unsafe environment. Right now, the amusement park ride that is NYC club poker isn't working and it needs to be cooled down.

And if you're thinking poker will be legalized in NYC, you're not being realistic.

[RR]

I want to point out you aren't completely safe from this anywhere. I have been working in a casino while it was being robbed. I would say an AC casino is safer than a NYC club, but there are levels of risk with any activity you participate in.

[TMTTR]

You are both wrong. Sort of. This is not an amusement park ride that is shut down so that it can be fixed (or so it can be determined whether there is a risk of repetition). This is not football or the other inherently dangerous activities listed by bav. This is poker -- an activity that is not inherently dangerous to life or limb -- being played in a place and manner where (1) the political/law enforcement authorities have determined that it is illegal, and (2) it has become the target of criminals with guns.

While I will not call on the authorities to raid these places, I have stopped playing in the city (unless it is a truly private "home" game) and would recommend that others do the same. I don't have a solution. It frustrates me, but between the threats from the cops and the threats from the robbers it just seems that playing in a semi-public illegal card room is stupid.

[pocket300]

I played with Frank a few times at some clubs a while back...its a shame to hear about this..I didnt recognize who it was until i saw the picture someone had posted of him..Frank was a great guy, always kind, and a good player..Frank you will be missed..RIP and condolenses to his family

[craigruby]

On a different note...With all of the donkeys that played at this establishment and the others in this fine city, how come I rarely come across a 2per at the tables? Secrecy huh? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[*TT*]

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On a different note...With all of the donkeys that played at this establishment and the others in this fine city, how come I rarely come across a 2per at the tables? Secrecy huh? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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actually if you pull most everyone aside you will find they read 2+2 at least 1-2x a month. They may not post, but almost all of the NYC players read 2+2 at this stage. This thread alone has brought people out of the woodwork. We have also been approached by two major news organizations to discuss the state of poker in NY and how it relates to Frank's murder.

Frank has become the poster boy for NY Poker legalization & regulation. Who would have guessed.

[craigruby]

Since it's been awhile since you've been back east my good man..... you will know that this establishment, as well as their other spot had many people who probably couldn't read at all, much less know how to find this place. The element on Friday/Saturday nights is not good at all..