We win (AP Scandal v. 27)

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Nat and adanthar and josem should never have to buy a drink or meal at any poker event again ever.

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fo realz, dinner on me in vegas this summer

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Thanks guys.

I should also thank our sources. Of course the guy who sent the file, but also the 20+ people who have come to me with information on these sites. There were many goons as well, but a lot of these guys really helped to put all of the pieces together.

I never really felt comfortable with posting most of it because messing around with these people does not seem like a good idea. I still don't really feel comfortable with my role here and I don't know if I'll ever feel comfortable saying publicly what I "really" did.

All this being said, there's still a fair amount of info that has been submitted to Adanthar/Josem/myself/etc that has not be said. Actually, some of it *even may clear* some of the people at AP. The nature of the info is such that it is not clear why people took certain actions on certain days, etc, etc.

Either way, I think it's best if we hold off releasing anything else right now, regardless of if it would help or hurt either side of the case. A bunch of people have this info that I'm referring to and my sources are still ready and willing to talk if I wanted to dig deeper, so it's out of the bag. Let's see what the statement says. If it's a bunch of half-truths and lies, then let's push harder. If they come clean and agree to change going forward in a significant and meaningful way, then I don't see the point in outing something they will admit to anyway.

Just my feeling on things. Let's hope online poker comes out of this relatively healthy.

-Nat

[NoahSD]

If the cheating happened exactly as we seem to think it did (account 363 opens table and observes and relays hands to someone), it should be really easy to check for other instances, since AP apparently has a log of the observers at all tables.

This should handle all the murkier claims people are bringing up, including seif.

[ikestoys]

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Can someone in the know make a list of the lies that have been told by AP during their attempt to coverup?

At this point they shouldn't just be answering to the behavior of the players who comprised their system, but their own behavior over the past month.

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View it from their perspective tho, hell view an analogous situation in BBV. What if all this was started not by a mod, but by some no name scrub with 5 posts? Would you take him seriously? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, and most of BBV would just make fun of him. (Hell we do it all the time) This is how Absolute viewed our allegations in the beginning imo until its proven otherwise.

[JMX]

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Has anyone posted the thread about Seif leaving the cash table on tilt and coming back 5 seconds later and happened to begin to win and the other guy thought it was a godmode acct? Or is that ike?

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I've been wondering about this too; not the thread itself, but details of it (HH, dates & times, etc.)

[timmay28]

Ok I'm just some random dude yall could care less about, but... great work, incredible how this has unfolded... but I think the celebration is too early?

[ikestoys]

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Has anyone posted the thread about Seif leaving the cash table on tilt and coming back 5 seconds later and happened to begin to win and the other guy thought it was a godmode acct? Or is that ike?

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I've been wondering about this too; not the thread itself, but details of it (HH, dates & times, etc.)

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Sigh again, no HHs, Seif denies it ever happened, the guy who started it recanted his story, played Seif later on.

[Zach6668]

Here's a screenshot of the email:

It was forwarded to Cwik, the guy who posted it originally at FCP, and he uploaded it for me, and told me to post it here, as he doesn't have an account.

[Josem]

I just finished a chat with Rounder's Radio - 20 minute discussion for anyone who's interested.

Key points:
1) I'd be more than happy to go play at Absolute once they fix this up. At least they now know where their holes are.

2) There is no evidence of cheating at any other major site

3) Allegations against Mark Seif do not have a solid footing

4) People should enjoy online poker because it is fun and challenging

5) See #2

6) It is good for Absolute to have admitted they had a problem. Repentance is the first step on the road to forgiveness and absolution.

[Victor]

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If AP survives this it's just a green light for other sites not to care what happens internally. It's definitely not a "wash" by simply returning the money. That doesn't make it okie dokie.

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I disagree actually... with all of this. If the Free Market decides that AP is safe enough because it went through these problems, eventually saw them and fixed the problem, then it will survive.

If a story of a massive coverup initially comes out... then Absolute will have a lot more problems, as it will strike their credibility and competence. As of right now, I'm not convinced they saw our allegations at first as anything more than your everyday run of the mill "ZOMG Poker is rigged, look how hawt he runz."

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this is pretty bad ike. for customers to return to ap those responsible need to be removed. the utmost effort must be put into removing them and proof must be shown. anything less is still supporting of the group that tried to rip everyone off.

the second part of your post seems incredibly naive. i would wager a large amount of money that there was an attempted coverup.

also i wouldnt be surprised if the trail of cheating didnt extend to all of the higher ups.

[rothko]

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Can someone in the know make a list of the lies that have been told by AP during their attempt to coverup?

At this point they shouldn't just be answering to the behavior of the players who comprised their system, but their own behavior over the past month.

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View it from their perspective tho, hell view an analogous situation in BBV. What if all this was started not by a mod, but by some no name scrub with 5 posts? Would you take him seriously? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't, and most of BBV would just make fun of him. (Hell we do it all the time) This is how Absolute viewed our allegations in the beginning imo until its proven otherwise.

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ike, once again, exhibit A: chipdumping. how are you missing this?