Applying for an entry-level job at a hedge fund

[APXG]

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I'll try my best. Thoughts on what to say about poker?

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just add it as an experience.

Year X-Year Y:

Professional Poker player
- studied probabilitistic basis for the game
- acquired skills in decision making under uncertainty

etc.

Barron

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... risk management...

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-learning to improve through other people + integrating their strenghts while eliminating weaknesses
-performing under pressure
-long sessions / stamina / mental durability
-thinking about a subject 24/7
-self control / handling tilt
-handling / maximizing equity vs. opponents on tilt / psychological assessments
-constantly assessing and reevaluating your game, making adjustments
-uncanny dexterity / flexibility in risk taking / decisionmaking
-100% brutal honesty when analyzing personal performance

And probably many more. Emphasize that many of these cannot be learned at a top school, with a top gpa, or really in any other activity/job by early 20's (maybe entrepreneurship).

[hlacheen]

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problem is they want TOP SCHOOL and STRONG GPA. those are usually non-negotiable requirements.


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Is it hard to get a nice entry-level job on Wall Street in general without these requirements? For example.... would it be hard to get these employers to consider you with top grades from a big state school?

[emon87]

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problem is they want TOP SCHOOL and STRONG GPA. those are usually non-negotiable requirements.


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Is it hard to get a nice entry-level job on Wall Street in general without these requirements? For example.... would it be hard to get these employers to consider you with top grades from a big state school?

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Most of the big/top firms send recruiters to very limited schools (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Penn/Wharton, Stanford, Northwestern, Dartmouth, UChicago). If you're not at one of those schools you'll be without the networking and event series that the firms have to recruit. You will need to REALLY stand out on paper to get an interview.

[hlacheen]

What about just a nice job in general? Not a Goldman Sachs etc... I think they're called "boutqiue firms" or something... are there enough "no-name" firms that someone from a state school can get a nice entry-level job, buy-side or sell-side, in NYC or a similar major city?

[DcifrThs]

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What about just a nice job in general? Not a Goldman Sachs etc... I think they're called "boutqiue firms" or something... are there enough "no-name" firms that someone from a state school can get a nice entry-level job, buy-side or sell-side, in NYC or a similar major city?

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it's really all about networking in general. thats the bottom line. if you can get a guy high up in any place to say to a friend "hey, check out this kid" then you'll be ok even if you dont have 4.0 from harvard.

3.0 from VT or whatever but the ability to interview well and really come accross confident, yet humble & deeply curious about the subject matter improves your chances. the main problem in general is GETTING to the interview.

they just have so many choices...why choose you??? thats where that network comes into play.

botique shops are your best bet w/o a top school/redic. strong network (or that stroke of luck that puts you in the right place at the right time)

Barron

[hapaboii]

Mdouglass,

First ask yourself why you want to be a researcher/analyst(this is vague, but I'm assuming you are referring to equities) and why you want to work at a hedge fund(again, here i'm assuming you mean a long/short equity fund that makes its investment decisions mostly from fundamental analysis) . Be honest with yourself about this. Do you know what the job entails? Have you also looked at other jobs in finance(there are so many choices..)?

Anyway, imho you are going to have a very tough time finding a gig. The problem with most hedge funds is that they either a) do not recruit people lacking relevant experience or b) recruit kids straight out of u-grad(from top schools). Same applies for investment banks.

Entry-level research analyst positions at hedge funds are going to attract sell-side research analysts and investment bankers looking to make the jump to the buyside. A lot of these guys slave away(unhappily) for 2-4 years on the sell-side hoping to get a shot at PE, VC, or a hedge fund. Their skills can be put to immediate use.

Unfortunately, a lot of things are going against you. You are competing against guys who have previous research or banking experience, while you don't. You are a few years out of school and so you'll lose the advantages of new grad recruiting. You don't have a stellar GPA and you didn't go to a top ivy.

On the bright side, as others have mentioned, you will greatly improve your chances by networking. Getting your resume in front of a bank MD or fund manager isn't enough. And certainly, HR is going to screen you out(sorry, this is the reality). You need to network to the point of having someone help you actually land an interview. I think if you can secure an interview, then it provides you the opportunity to really wow a fund manager or hiring manager, etc.

Lastly, I suggest you consider careers in trading. You majored in math(I assume you must like it somewhat and be okay at it), you play poker. Traders care less about your pedigree(though HR will still screen out most candidates before the trader ever interviews you/reviews your resume) and more about your potential to make them or the firm money. The world of trading is huge. So many different financial products to trade, so many different functions of trading(market making, prop, sales trading/execution trading, execution algo development, automated systems trading, floor trading(this is dying though), etc). Given your background, I can say it will be a lot easier to land a trading gig(usually this means starting out as an assistant trader fetching coffee, printing out position and p&l reports, etc).

As an aside, we had a bloomberg analytics guy in our office today. Chatted a bit and he mentioned he used to be an MM on the PCX(before Arca bought em and before NYSE bought Arca, now I think PCX is just known as NYSE Arca Holdings or something lame). He worked for Cutler Group(I'd consider them a quality options MM up there with Susq), claims that his "interview" was playing texas hold'em. I know the guys at Susq are big into poker also, you might try them if you are interested. I think a few of them are on the forums.

Good luck.

[Chrysiptera]

Good post hapaboii..

mdouglass; I think you should look down the road a bit and see where you want to be. It might be that putting a lot of effort into trying to land a job in financial services isn't where you want to go. When I was coming out of undergrad I was in a similar spot as you; "OK gpa from a decent school" and thought being on Wall Street would be cool. After talking to people that actually had the job it was a lot less sexy. When starting out they work long hours for short pay in a thankless environment...

After griding away in the entry level you get to move up; this is where you should be looking. Is that really where you want to be when you're 30?

-Chry

PS: Ugrad from RIT, quarter life crisis at 26, just finishing MBA from Babson, still don't want to grow up

[DespotInExile]

what the hell, i know somebody who got a job offer at farralon with basically no experience and no meaningful academic pedigree.

i also know somebody who (until a few weeks ago) was hiring for an undergrad research assistant/bitch. this person ended up hiring a liberal arts undergrad major (though one with strong SAT math), and some demonstrated desire to get in the business i.e., had taken and passed CFA1.

[mdouglass]

Great posts, thanks a lot guys. You all make some really great points. As I'm sure you are all well aware, I don't know much about this field and assumed that this entry-level job at this hedge fund was small potatoes, but apparently it's not.

Trading does seem like something that would fit me very well. I know several people at SIG (I assume that's the same as the Susq you mentioned hapaboii) and we are all former magic pros turned poker players etc. They went on to work as traders and love it. It seems like a good fit for my skill set.

I only recently started looking for jobs in the investing field and know very little about them. Really, I would be fine with just about any entry-level position that would let me learn the field with lots of room to grow. Being an assistant trader actually sounds perfect right now (It's what a friend at SIG suggested, too), but I'm having trouble actually finding job openings that fit that. Is it going to be hard to find an assistant trading job in the DC area? I keep searching sites for the word 'trader' and the only thing I ever get is Trader Joe's or some kind of senior executive positions. What else should I try searching?

[Phone Booth]

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Glocap? I don't know if it's good or bad or what.

Nope, not solid grades. 3.0 in Math from Virginia Tech.

Basically I'm screwed?

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Yes.

To break it down:

3.0: bad
Math: good
Virginia Tech: marginal
Not knowing what business Glocap is in: bad
Not having had a job since college: bad

PM me if you want more specific advice.