QQ overpair vs. unknown. line check. 50NL

GiantBuddha · #1 11-10-2007, 10:35 PM

So this is a pretty common/simple spot. Overpair on in a 3-bet pot OOP. Villain is total unknown, my second hand at the table. If he has AA/KK does he just get my chips? Am I getting any value from 99-JJ here? How would it be different if I held TT or AA here? I'm interested in general theory of this type of spot more than the particular hand itself.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($59.05)
MP2 ($31.95)
MP3 ($95.25)
CO ($49.25)
Button ($49.85)
Hero ($48.90)
BB ($55.35)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($76.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, MP3 calls $5.

Flop: ($14.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $11, MP3 calls $11.

Turn: ($36.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($59.05)
MP2 ($31.95)
MP3 ($95.25)
CO ($49.25)
Button ($49.85)
Hero ($48.90)
BB ($55.35)
UTG ($50)
UTG+1 ($76.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises to $2, 2 folds, Hero raises to $7, 1 fold, MP3 calls $5.

Flop: ($14.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $11, MP3 calls $11.

Turn: ($36.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $30.9 (All-In)

RapidEvolution · #2 11-10-2007, 10:43 PM

If I'm getting my money in (which I am, given the pot size), I want to check the flop vs an aggro opponent let JJ/TT hang themself. If opponent is station-ish, I'll probably bet out. Whether or not JJ/TT pays you is pretty villain-dependent, IMO.

oakrdrzfan · #3 11-11-2007, 02:37 AM

I wouldnt ck this flop, flush and straight draws out there. With an SPR of a little over 3, I am willing to play for stacks. I dont play it much different than the way you did except i would 3 bet to about 8 preflop

King Spew · #4 11-11-2007, 04:28 PM

GB

I can play for stacks here with the PF call and call behind on the flop. Only hand that I'm worried about is KK and I would think that is realitively just a small part of villain's range. I actually like the calls as he most likely is sporting middle pairs and you are WA.

Push on turn only gets called by hands that beat you.... but u knew that.....

RyanCMU · #5 11-11-2007, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
GB

I can play for stacks here with the PF call and call behind on the flop. Only hand that I'm worried about is KK and I would think that is realitively just a small part of villain's range. I actually like the calls as he most likely is sporting middle pairs and you are WA.

Push on turn only gets called by hands that beat you.... but u knew that.....

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree w/ this. I think that we get called by a lot of worse hands here, and we can effectivly be valueshoving here.

Johnes Benjamin · #6 11-11-2007, 06:17 PM

I can't really justify doing anything but pushing but I'm not convinced worse hands are looking us up very often. I guess with such a low flop crappy "overpairs" will look us up sometimes.

I think checking the turn is bad, but I really wish it wasn't.

With AA it is an easy commitment. With TT I think you have to c/reevaluate and probably fold.

WantToLearn · #7 11-11-2007, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think checking the turn is bad, but I really wish it wasn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we c/r if the villain is known for aggression?

LerkEr · #8 11-11-2007, 06:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can't really justify doing anything but pushing but I'm not convinced worse hands are looking us up very often. I guess with such a low flop crappy "overpairs" will look us up sometimes.

I think checking the turn is bad, but I really wish it wasn't.

With AA it is an easy commitment. With TT I think you have to c/reevaluate and probably fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

coordi · #9 11-11-2007, 06:39 PM

mcvalue shove baby

Johnes Benjamin · #10 11-11-2007, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think checking the turn is bad, but I really wish it wasn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can we c/r if the villain is known for aggression?

[/ QUOTE ]

at a certain point, sure. If he is super aggressive and we are confident he fires a lot when checked to then why not? Thing is, we will probably just c/c anyway since there is less than a PSB left in effective stacks

this was part of why i was saying i wish we could check. It seems like a good way to get value from lesser PP's but I don't think most people are firing turn here, we are actually getting more value from betting ourselves