Stars VIP Wild speculation

[chezlaw]

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I will speak from the fixed limit end of the argument about getting to Supernova Elte bbecause that is the only thing I play

1. Unfair that SNG players get to play unlimited games while cash game players have 12 table limit. Ide rather play more tables and less hours. Doesnt matter about winning or losing because that is all up to stars anyways, so you might as well maximize your tables.

2. Free rolls are stupid and bias. Geared towards no-limit tournament players that have nothing to do on Saturdays. Do you not think this is getting too specific, alianating the rest of the poker population. Might I add that alianating the part of the poker population that you need most is not such a smart idea. There are tons and tons of No limit tournament players ( fish and pros ) out there, but what is the player base for Cash game fixed limit players ?

3. Add more ( special perks ) at all milestone levels.

FE: You get 1.8c per FPP at the 500,000 milestone level or things of that nature. Instead of a onetime 4,200 dollar bonus that you have to play 20,000 hands to clear which is plenty of hands for them to rig against you and spread out that money throughout their player pool.


Solutions

1. Allow no max on games played, if a player can play 40 tables at once than allow him to do so.

2. Absolutely, possitively, get rid of the stupid freerolls. One time monthly bonus will be better , or T money or, even a money maker plate set with matching cups.

3. More lucrative rewards for 2million, 3 million, 4 million and 5 million. To make it worth while for dealing with rigged and borring online poker. I want to know there is a good reward after watching people fold for hours, days and weeks on in.

4. Get rid of Pokertracker and other software aids. If players are not good enough to play on their own then let them suffer. It just might help the games, way way too many tighty tighty nits. Its similar to allowing robots.

5. Advance notice of Double VPP days and more double VPP days. Hey theres a great Idea, get rid of all freerolls including the 100k monthly and all other freerolls and add 1 Double VPP day per month or 2 so that incase someone misses the one day they can have the other. Dont whine about this promo costing you too much money, because players will have to play and pay rake in order to get these points so it will increase play greatly on those days.

6. Start doing things to appeal to more regular ( non pro ) players as mentioned above removing the PA huds and such would help greatly.

7. Bottom line thinking will bottom out your company. Dont merely think of how to get more pros to play more tables against each other. For full ring limit games, if you play 12 tables, there are 8 players who are on most if not all your tables. What goes through the casual players mind when any table he opens he sees the same players on all tables ? He just closes down the software and plays somewhere else. Bring in more fish to games otherwise I see the future of limit poker dying very soon if not already dead. And yes this means the dreaded reload bonuses that stars just loves to hate. Stop being stingy and dishem out. The money is going to circulate back into your pockets anyways.

But then again what do I know, Ive only ran 5 successfull buisness and have net worth over 2 mill. ( which has dropped to 1.90 due to rigged poker on stars.

For those curious I am down about 20k on stars this year without counting any FPP or milestone bonuses. After all things considered Im down only 6k. Which is not bad at all considering I havent played 1 week of poker which hasnt been rigged on me. I have had maybe 5 normal days of poker all year.

Microbob, stop posting play more poker, it would be shame if you dont make elite this year because your posting here way to often. Maybe you dont win at poker because of bad decision making ?Posting over playing always bad decision. Im not sure if you win or not but I remember you saying that your slightly down.

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scotty pls ignore this entire post. thx

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except for this, maybe?

"Geared towards no-limit tournament"

The weekly tournaments and the SNE packages are geared towards the no-limt tournament players. Maybe stars could consider changing this to reward/encourage limit players

[1p0kerboy]

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except for this, maybe?

"Geared towards no-limit tournament"

The weekly tournaments and the SNE packages are geared towards the no-limt tournament players. Maybe stars could consider changing this to reward/encourage limit players


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There are tons of rewards in the VIP program for players of all games and stakes.

As far as SNE, one of the major perks is the 400% fpp bonus. This is a further example of a reward for all players.

The tournament packages are a vacation and a stake in a no-limit major event. So it's not as if an Omaha player (for instance) would get nothing out of this package.

We need to just accept the fact that in some instances Stars has to find rewards that most players will enjoy.

[Henry17]

I don't really see what Stars could offer to limit players. There simply is no high profile limit tournament that I know of.

As a limit player I still like the tournaments myself and I really can't think of a substitute for those who really don't like the idea of a trip and and chance to play in a major NL event. My argument would be that since hand for hand we earn base points faster then NL players that added value compensates.

Other then that the only other option would be to make the tournaments transferable. Limit it to SNs with 500k+ since Stars would still want it to be a high volume player. That way a SNE who really doesn't want to play a major could sell his package.

I really don't see this as a major issue though.s

[2461Badugi]

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Please keep posting your ideas,


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Please Please Please give us a VPP at .50 rake at 2/4 limit and above, and cap headsup rake there. I would start tables so much more often if HU and 3-handed weren't raked to death.

[Alobar]

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Please keep posting your ideas,


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Please Please Please give us a VPP at .50 rake at 2/4 limit and above,

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good god, that would be sick. Theres no way this happens tho

[MicroBob]

Would it really be that sick?
They only rake $0.50 if the table is 2 or 3-handed.
Min-rake at 4-handed is $1.
I guess it would be a bit better because I agree that the super-rake and lack of FPP's really makes it tough to justify sitting at or starting such tables. But tables fill up quickly enough usually where I just don't think of this as being that sick since you just won't get that many 3-player hands for it to make much of a difference.

However, while I don't think it's a big deal I do think there really is no reason why they shouldn't give you a VPP when 3-handed at $0.50 rake.
$0.50 rake at 3-handed is the same contributed rake as $1 rake when 6-handed....about $0.17 contributed rake for each player. Yet on a 3-handed situation where you contribute your $0.17 you get nothing in return which definitely seems a bit unfair.

Correcting this is not complicated. Just make it minimum-rake of $0.50 for 2/4 limit and higher as suggested and you have suddenly given your players a greater incentive to start tables without really giving away the farm or anything. You are just giving the 3-handed players the same thing per contributed-rake that the 6-handed players already get.

[2461Badugi]

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But tables fill up quickly enough usually where I just don't think of this as being that sick since you just won't get that many 3-player hands for it to make much of a difference.


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This is because you're a holdem player. I can sit and play HU or 3-way Razz or TD for ages, sometimes even Stud/8. But it pains me to be raked twice as much as FT/UB and get virtually nothing back for it.

[MicroBob]

aha. that makes sense. When you said 'limit games' I was definitely just thinking of holdem.
You absolutely deserve to get FPP's for all your $0.17 contributred-rake HU and 3-player hands at razz, omaha, etc.

I don't know too much about the details of how the other sites do the rake. But obviously if you are getting straight rakeback there you are getting plenty back per hand whereas at Stars you really are paying a lot and getting zilcho on a lot of those hands.

I'm in your camp 100% now. This is definitely an unfairness that should be corrected.

[NewGuy]

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The freerolls are worth $50/week NOW, they were worth closer to $100/week earlier in the year.

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*Sighs*

This is just a plain lie. Fortunately, I did play most of the freerolls this year so I can set the record straight.

The first 50k I played was January 13th and it drew 727 players (I keep meticulous records). This tournament was worth $68.78. On February 3rd, the 50k drew 830 players for a value of $60.24. Last week the value slipped below $50 for the first time this year.

This tournament was never worth "closer to $100/week earlier this year".

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An average of $70-$80/week for 2007 is a reasonably good ballpark guess.

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No. This tournament has not been worth $70 at all this year. This is a horrible ballpark guess.

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I hardly think it's worth debating this more, but it seems fairly clear to me that the few hundred SuperNovas who played in most of the freerolls (and determined their EV to be close to $4,000) would be quite disappointed to only be offered bonuses totalling < $1,000 in 2008.

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Like I said before, I played in most of the freerolls. I played in them even though, frankly, I don't care at all for tournaments AND I hate having to sit at home in front of my computer on Saturday afternoons. I'd rather be out enjoying the day, but I don't want to give everybody else my EV. I'm willing to take less value to free up my Saturday and to keep me from having to sit through these silly things. And I don't think I'm in the minority. And I'm saying this even though YTD I've cashed >$1000 in them.

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OK, you win- I'm convinced your records are accurate and it was closer to $3,000 in EV not $4,000. (Minor point- I believe there was a stretch in July-August where there were <700 players but that doesn't change the overall figures much).

I will now be slightly less disappointed if Novas lose over $2,000 of freeroll value (instead of $3,000) if Stars switches to tiny monthly bonuses for 2008.

[NewGuy]

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At this point I'd vote for nothing rather then the freerolls simply because it would annoy the people who want to keep them. I can't stand it when people make erroneous arguments in an effort to defend a position they hold completely out of self-interest.

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Nice [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I guess all of the arguments made to switch to monthly bonuses are made purely out of altruism and generosity?

My numbers were apparently off, since PokerBoy's convinced me that a bit under $3,000 is a much better estimate for 2007 Nova freeroll value than $4k-$5k. However, I don't think this invalidates the argument that there would be a significant nuber of Novas disappointed in losing $2k+ in EV.

Maybe I'm a sucker for marketing gimmicks, but I also happen to enjoy playing in freerolls with a "free" shot at a big payday more than just getting a few $s. I understand you disagree and elect not to play (as is obviously your perogative), but there are people who do actually enjoy these tourneys.

There was a debate in some thread a while back where someone said they were disappointed that Stars would pay cash to winners of WSOP sats / WSOP seats bought with FPPs rather than giving a non-refundable seat to the tourney (i.e., they did not WANT the option to take the cash). Dozens of 2+2ers called this guy a moron, not too many defended him. I was with the minority who got where he was coming from- I like having the occasional tourney you have to PLAY rather than having an option to turn the seat into cash value. To each his own, you don't have to agree to accept there are other valid points of view.