Cheating at a poker room?

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
Too many responses center around whether the cheating works or not. Reminds me of chip dumping threads. The point is that you have to stop it before the inept cheats become skilled ones.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, you the suggestion is that they weren't cheating and that the fact that what they are accused of doing doesn't seem to be at all effective as cheating method suggests that it wasn't cheating.

you might conclude they are bad cheats, but i might conclude that OP is drawing the wrong conclusions

[David Troyer]

Summary,
First of all, I’m not a new kid on the block. I have played poker 11 years and have 10,800 of live poker playing experience. The last 3 years, I have played exclusively no limit holdem in all the card rooms here in vegas.

I’ll admit that I may not have written my observations in a clear and consise matter. I am not trying to prove that their cheating method is good, clever or works, or that their signals work or don’t work.

I’m saying they are playing partners (most likely from the same bankroll) based on my observation of their play on table 31 Thursday aftertoon. That is why I went to the shift supervisor, filed a report with security, then filed a report with the Nevada gaming commission. Her vehement denying of any wrong doing to security, 15 minute talk with shift supervisor is also suspicious. She is this adamant about playing with a friend when there are 3 games going?

It is also obvious that the poker rooms take no special interest in protecting the poker players money from other cheating players. The same bellagio has the most extensive security system in vegas to protect the houses money from cheats, but not poker players from other cheats.

Nobody understood the team signals so here goes.

PREFLOP
Case 1 Neither has a hand.
He signals im going to muck, they both muck hand.
Obviously in this case no signal is needed even though they did signal

Case 2 He has a hand, she has anything
He signals he will raise, and she calls.
Once again, it doesn’t matter that he signals because she ALWAYS calls his raise.

Case 3, everybody missed this one, he doesn’t have a hand, she does.
He signals he is going to muck, she has time to look at her cards and and picks up a big hand. Instead of mucking, he now puts his hand down and RAISES instead of mucking because he knows she has a big hand behind.

POSTFLOP
When he raises postflop he wants her to
1. fold
2. call
3. reraise
I did not see the signals for 1 or 2 but witnessed the 3 reraise signal.

In addition to signals, he shows his cards to her preflop, giving her a huge advantage before she acts on her hand.

[TropAndEastern]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary,


Her vehement denying of any wrong doing to security, 15 minute talk with shift supervisor is also suspicious. She is this adamant about playing with a friend when there are 3 games going?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahaha. She gets accused of cheating and because she vigorously defends herself from such a strong accusation, that proves that it's true? I hope you realize how absurd that argument is. And on the other point, there have been times when I've gone to play with friends and we only want to be playing on the same table together. What's wrong with that?

[ QUOTE ]

PREFLOP
Case 1 Neither has a hand.
He signals im going to muck, they both muck hand.
Obviously in this case no signal is needed even though they did signal

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you wish everyone had such obvious tells?

[ QUOTE ]

Case 2 He has a hand, she has anything
He signals he will raise, and she calls.
Once again, it doesn’t matter that he signals because she ALWAYS calls his raise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Another nice tell. By the way, in how many instances did you see this occur?

[ QUOTE ]

POSTFLOP
When he raises postflop he wants her to
1. fold
2. call
3. reraise
I did not see the signals for 1 or 2 but witnessed the 3 reraise signal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brilliant. You didn't see the 1st 2 signals, but you saw #3 once! One time, right? So how do you know? You'd have taken anything he did as the signal. He scratches his ear at that point...signal, he shuffles his chips...signal. Without seeing it multiple times, how can you be sure?

[ QUOTE ]

In addition to signals, he shows his cards to her preflop, giving her a huge advantage before she acts on her hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why does he need to ever signal her? And based on the fact that he's the one controlling all their actions, why is he sitting on her right hand side? Wouldn't it make more sense to be on her left? If they were cheating, they are the most incompetent cheats of all time and their actions, I think, help create better opportunities for you to take significant chunks of their buyins, rather than vice versa.

I hope Gaming Control appreciates you wasting their time.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
Summary,
First of all, I’m not a new kid on the block. I have played poker 11 years and have 10,800 of live poker playing experience. The last 3 years, I have played exclusively no limit holdem in all the card rooms here in vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

and you have never run into sue or her boyfriend before? I cant walk into a card room on the strip without tripping over those two.

[Howard Burroughs]

Dave,

You have said many times (long before what went down on table 31 on Thursday afternoon) that you believe that there are lots of cheating teams in this room. And that the floor does nothing about it (in your opinion).


I know you feel strongly that you are right but......


Why The Fudge play there then?


There are other 5-10's in town.



Though I think you might be looking for things that are not there (at the B), one thing that is clear is that you DO NOT like playing at the B, because you feel you are the victim of cheating teams. And that was even before that hot chick on table 31 on Thursday afternoon.


Best Wishes

Howard