Moral duty to pay taxes - when?

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Lol, I did not understand your post. What did you mean by "I think you've just described tips/donations"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tips/donations seem 100% synonymous with anything that I would have a "moral obligation" to pay, if I'm not mistaken.

Here, let's start over. Please rephrase the question without using the words "moral," "right" or "ethical" so I can understand what you are trying to say [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, you earn $100k somehow, you don't have any dramatic personal economic problems or something, you can afford to pay tax on it. You are then doing your reporting to the IRS, does your conscience tell you you should declare it? In other words, if you leave it out, do you feel bad about it?

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Lol, I did not understand your post. What did you mean by "I think you've just described tips/donations"?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tips/donations seem 100% synonymous with anything that I would have a "moral obligation" to pay, if I'm not mistaken.

Here, let's start over. Please rephrase the question without using the words "moral," "right" or "ethical" so I can understand what you are trying to say [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, you earn $100k somehow, you don't have any dramatic personal economic problems or something, you can afford to pay tax on it. You are then doing your reporting to the IRS, does your conscience tell you you should declare it? In other words, if you leave it out, do you feel bad about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Not even close. In fact, if I'm sure that there won't be any legal repercussions for doing so, I will probably brag about it, and most people would view it as a good thing.

The idea of feeling bad about withholding one's taxes is bizarre to me. I know you're European and maybe it's different there, but I'd say that 90% of Americans, easily, would gladly keep the money and not feel at all bad about it. Some might compensate by donating a sizable chunk to charity or their church, but on the whole we sigh a groan of irritation when we see what was cut from our paycheck without the slightest sense of accomplishment.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
I know you're European and maybe it's different there, but I'd say that 90% of Americans, easily, would gladly keep the money and not feel at all bad about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sentiment in Europe differs from region to region, however I think I see a pattern wrt distance (physical, cultural, sociocultural etc.) to the people in power and also a pattern wrt the faith in government. Thus I am thinking that whether we pay or not is mostly caused by the current situation, maybe if you would move to a small island state with a good government you would feel bad about not paying. Which also makes sense from an ethical perspective, how we view the current situation also determines how we view the consequences of our actions.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know you're European and maybe it's different there, but I'd say that 90% of Americans, easily, would gladly keep the money and not feel at all bad about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sentiment in Europe differs from region to region, however I think I see a pattern wrt distance (physical, cultural, sociocultural etc.) to the people in power and also a pattern wrt the faith in government. Thus I am thinking that whether we pay or not is mostly caused by the current situation, maybe if you would move to a small island state with a good government you would feel bad about not paying. Which also makes sense from an ethical perspective, how we view the current situation also determines how we view the consequences of our actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. There are definitely events that bring a moral sense of voluntary social duty out of even Americans (9-11 and Katrina being excellent examples).

I can relate to this on a much smaller scale. I can't leave a restaurant without tipping, and I almost never go to a party/fundraiser that accepts donations without at least giving the recommended minimum.

If the government actually did what I wanted it to do I might feel bad; the problem is that I can't imagine any situation in which this could occur. If the government actually did something that would cause the people to have a sense of social responsibility (like waiters and bartenders and street performers), then we wouldn't need a government to do it.

[ianlippert]

[ QUOTE ]
If the government actually did what I wanted it to do I might feel bad; the problem is that I can't imagine any situation in which this could occur. If the government actually did something that would cause the people to have a sense of social responsibility (like waiters and bartenders and street performers), then we wouldn't need a government to do it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why should we feel bad about not paying taxes when the government shows very little restraint in spending money that doesnt go to poor people. Mabey if the government was a paragon of virtue then I would feel bad. But when this institution wastes money on things that dont help others and benefits only those in political power I feel very little remorse for money that this corrupt institution isnt getting. I have no respect for any group that uses moral arguements to convince people of their legitimacy and then tries to get away with the most immoral acts. Its like we've put convicts in charge of running a country wide charity. lol?

[lehighguy]

If you thought you were morally obligated, you would probably do it without the threat of 25 to life, don't you think.

Aren't taxes, by their nature, are things we wouldn't pay unless threatened by violence. Things you give money to out of the good of your heart are called charities.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
None.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]


There is never a "moral duty" to submit to theft.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$100K that is not traceable, and you want to figure out when you should pay taxes on it? You freaking commie, go back to Canada if you love paying taxes so damn much. REAL Americans know the answer to this questions is NEVER. I do mean EVERY American, even the Socialists.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a real american and I feel a moral duty to pay taxes as do most of the people I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what you think, lol.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$100K that is not traceable, and you want to figure out when you should pay taxes on it? You freaking commie, go back to Canada if you love paying taxes so damn much. REAL Americans know the answer to this questions is NEVER. I do mean EVERY American, even the Socialists.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a real american and I feel a moral duty to pay taxes as do most of the people I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what you think, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if he feels a moral duty to whipe Monica's mouth after Clinton is done wagging his schlong across it while Clinton is simultaneously laughing about his status as king and the rest of us as suckers paying for his exploits.