AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[zen_rounder]

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I'd just like to chime in here on the belief expressed by some that this investigation is somehow losing steam, or that AP has "won" (whatever that means) because there hasn't been a dramabomb since Sunday around noon (36 excruciating hours ago -- tongue in cheek).

Stop it.

A few points for your consideration. First of all, 36 hours is *only* 36 freakin' hours. The investigation and the KGC and Gaming Associates audits will take time, and they're not going to release every piece of information as it's uncovered. Let them do their work -- I am just as concerned as everyone about the auditing parties' objectivity, but as those of you who have had experience in the post-college "real world" should know, these things take time. Just a fact. It may be another week before we get the next AP statement, but don't immediately assume it's b/c their primary objective is laying low and hoping this whole thing blows over (even while they might hope it will.) I posted before about a 45-min conversation I had with the chairman of the KGC, and about how I was actually pleasantly surprised that he was taking all of this very seriously, and asking the right questions.

I love dramabombs and bloodlust as much as the next guy, but now that some wheels are in motion at high levels, we need to be realistic with our timeframe. It doesn't mean our outrage should be toned down, or that AP has somehow triumphed. But let's put this all in perspective: in the last 7 days, we have gotten AP to admit to a historically-unprecedented security breach in their systems, promised to pay back all aggrieved parties, and made statements that, at least on their face, appear to be steps toward holding the parties responsible accounted for. I found the Hilt wedding articles, which led to us acquiring pictures of the suspects which we didn't have before (although I must give more credit to whoever dug up the wedding photo album.) The point is that the progress we've made on this thing has been *frighteningly* quick, at least in terms of typical corporate/business-realm investigations. We have the collective braintrust of thousands of internet poker nerds on our side, and we can't expect the dozen people on the Absolute side of things to match our efficiency.

I'm furious with the chorus of people suggesting that this is somehow a triumph for Absolute, and in my opinion, that's a HUGE slap in the face to Nat, Adanthar, Druff, and Josem, who I thank for essentially championing our cause free of charge (and I know there are individuals over at P5s and elsewhere who have been equally instrumental). After this thing is over, I'll volunteer to start some sort of "Thank You" collection plate that perhaps can be donated to a charity of their choice...it's not much, but it seems like a noble way to express just how much I personally appreciate what they've done. Many of you don't really know how good we have it to have 4 smart, articulate, and accessible people like them fighting for us. So my bottom line is that the pessimism expressed over the last 24 hours isn't good for anyone, and it's a thorn to the morale of those who are working so hard to shed light on the biggest scandal to hit the online poker scene most of us have ever been party to. The way we keep up the pressure on Absolute is to *stay diligent*. There have been several lulls in the investigation since mid-September when it first came to light...and we didn't let them derail us, and look where we are now. Let's keep it up.

[/ QUOTE ]well said sir [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[IMTheWalrus8]

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Other than small time ops like Pokershare releasing anti-AP ads, what would you want, say, Stars to do here? Stars is unquestionably the public leader in integrity in this business. They also have a KGC license and aren't going to shoot themselves in the foot by bringing this up publicly when the next question they'll be asked is 'why do you have a KGC license?' To them, it's understandably better to keep their mouth shut.

Everyone else either also has a KGC license or a license from an outfit much worse than the KGC. The lone exception might be WSEX because the Antiguans, I hear, do have some kind of integrity verifying thing going on, but nobody cares about them or plays there so what's the point?

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So the net result is nothing, except a few will be wiser in the future. And the people who want to do the right thing and create/have some type of real governance wouldn't benefit, so why bother spending all the time pursuing such a thing?

US players in particular are in a Catch 22 situation.

So does online poker just keep floating along like this? I guess it couldn't survive unless things like the AP scandal were possible.

[Josem]

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...Don't bother reporting the popcorn issue to the Vegas police. They aren't going to be sending extradition requests to Costa Rica or Panama over this. The perpetrators of this theft are out of reach.

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I disagree with the first sentence here.

I think there is value in AP having investigated for everything shady that they've been alleged to have done:

"Absolute Poker, under investigation for stealing $10,000 from a Children's Hospital fundraiser, continue to be embroiled in an online poker cheating scandal..."

[imabigdeal]

great post teddy.

[SlackerMcFly]

A friend of mine related a story from the 2006 WSOP where another of his pals was playing a tourney with a UB guy. They got chatting and went on break to dinner together. UB guy asked to borrow the friend's laptop to check up on somebody in a UB tourney.

When the UB dude logged in to the site, all the hole cards were revealed while they watched. UB dude logged off after finding what he was looking for.

The friend didn't know who the UB guy was and didn't see him after he busted out later that evening.

I dismissed it as BS at the time until all of this came up. Couldn't see the rationale behind some random dude at the WSOP borrowing somebody's laptop and revealing that sort of of power to a relative stranger in that setting.

So.... pfffft. Now I don't know what to make of the story.

[GaryTheGoat]

TeddyFBI:
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(although I must give more credit to whoever dug up the wedding photo album.)

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I think that it was SuckitTrebek or something. I can look it up if needed. Didn't he do something with bots before?

Anyway, good post.

gg

[Josem]

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I don't really know what the photographer is thinking, but I guess they somehow think that taking them offline will help protect their copyright.

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Under Australian (and, presumably, other Western countries) copyright law, users are given quite extensive "fair use" protections against over zealous copyright holders.

Identification of people involved in an incident of such significant public discussion would seem to be a fairly self-evident fair use of the material. It's not as if people are reproducing these images for hanging on their wall or for entertainment purposes.

[bronx bomber]

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A friend of mine related a story from the 2006 WSOP where another of his pals was playing a tourney with a UB guy. They got chatting and went on break to dinner together. UB guy asked to borrow the friend's laptop to check up on somebody in a UB tourney.

When the UB dude logged in to the site, all the hole cards were revealed while they watched. UB dude logged off after finding what he was looking for.

The friend didn't know who the UB guy was and didn't see him after he busted out later that evening.

I dismissed it as BS at the time until all of this came up. Couldn't see the rationale behind some random dude at the WSOP borrowing somebody's laptop and revealing that sort of of power to a relative stranger in that setting.

So.... pfffft. Now I don't know what to make of the story.

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Now THATS a dramabomb.

[bronx bomber]

Hey Slacker McFly, show your friend the wedding photos.

[Dan Druff]

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Popcorngate DID occur, which is why AP is not making any statements about it. It is easy for them to disprove, and the fact that they have ignored it speaks volumes.

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DD,

While I don't doubt PG did happen, I did talk to someone who saw the popcorn money in the Vancouver offices. Are you saying that ST then took it? I can't find your original post about it, but I seem to remember that it implied he took the cash as soon as it was collected.

Tuco.

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I didn't know about the Vancouver office. All I was told is that the AP owners ultimately appropriated it, and that it never made it to any charity.