Borg 20 Clarkmeister Corollary

[ProfessorBen]

Borgata 20/40 8-handed
MP is one of those in betweens, not too aggressive, not too passive. His range is loose preflop, definitely a notch away from my standards, but not ridiculous. I don't remember any specifics at this point, but I remember that he used to donk in strange positions.

CO is a loose fish who has a wide range preflop and is passive postflop. He pays off and is the reason I have the seat I'm in.

Preflop: MP calls, LP calls, Hero raises KK [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in SB

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villains call.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero bets, Villains call.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Hero...

Whatever your answer, please give villain's ranges. Does your answer change if you are in the button and the villains had check/called on every street and checked the river?

[sharpie]

I would check, don't think there's value, and they can check behind better hands. I would be tempted to call if it checks to MP who bets, but if he's only semi loose alot of his worse hands are 2 pair type ones that will just check behind, and you could still be beat by the middle fish who's too scared to bet his straight or low club.

Edit: I thought MP was last to act, easier check/fold now I think.

[an0nym0u5]

MP and LP are both at river?

I Check/fold
Top set might as well be under pair on a 4 straight and a 4 flush on the board.
A bet isn't going to get a fish to fold a T here even if he doesn't have a club, nor is he going to fold a 2 of clubs.

I guess you can call if you want to have a chuckle at the garbage hand that beat you.

[NinaWilliams]

c/f. You're way behind their ranges to begin with, and youre WAY WAY behind their range when they bet. I dont think coming up with ranges does you any good because thier ranges are so wide. If this was HU and the 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] was like the 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or something, Id bet.

[Gap23Razor]

thanks for putting up the hand and asking for our thoughts

i check and pray its checked through but i would call 1 bet (pot odds) on the hope they were drawing to 2 pair hands, lower sets, or split pairs that the river missed their kickers...it this were no limit i might make a blocking bet here (not really good at that game either)....MP1 probably also thinks CO is going to call anything so MP1 will not bet without close to the nuts hand...but if we bet MP1 might be tempted to bluff raise on the river with low end of straight or worse if he thinks CO and us would fold a straight for 2 bets fearing a made flush--but i see that as unlikely, either CO folding or MP1 bluffing...

because each has played so passively but hung in i see them on draws...Axs, Kxs, or split pair with/without a club kicker, T or 9 with a club kicker

if i am in position and they checked i would bet if MP1 has not shown a check raise yet...

again, i appreciate the chance to consider your problem and your invitation to comment...i look forward to other comments and possible feedback on my thoughts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]