Horrendous flop check.......I think?

Scatman · #1 09-08-2006, 04:39 AM

How horrible is my flop check? Villian is 28/4.23/2 For some reason I thought he had to have AK to have called that PF raise....or QQ...in QQ's case the check was to milk a little more money off him. I was definitely more so afraid of AK. I duno...what do you guys think? How would you have played this?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|saw showdown

CO ($77.50)
Button ($220.26)
SB ($121.65)
BB ($109.75)
UTG ($135.80)
UTG+1 ($76.61)
UTG+2 ($171.07)
MP1 ($35.68)
MP2 ($100)
Hero ($121.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $2, UTG+2 calls $2, MP1 calls $2, 1 fold, Hero raises to $15, 1 fold, Button calls $15, 2 folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds.

Flop: ($37.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($37.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $15, Hero calls $15.

River: ($67.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Final Pot: $127.50

cambraceres · #2 09-08-2006, 04:46 AM

Villain's range cannot be so severly restricted here. I don't like a flop check, but if I lead the flop I'm inclined to push even a moderately favorable turn.

Cam

Scatman · #3 09-08-2006, 04:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain's range cannot be so severly restricted here. I don't like a flop check, but if I lead the flop I'm inclined to push even a moderately favorable turn.

Cam

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming that you did bet this flop....how much would you bet and then would you Cbet after the J hits on the turn and if so how much.... 2/3 pot?

WoodyWoahzay · #4 09-08-2006, 07:56 AM

I'd bet half to two thirds pot on the flop and shutdown past that. I also don't think a flop check is horrendous but would prefer that line if you had position. If I had AK in this spot I'd likey bet 1/2 - 2/3rds pot...I normaly C bet a little smaller on a paired board.

4_2_it · #5 09-08-2006, 08:54 AM

Bet $20-$25 on the flop. That size bet looks more like an Ace trying to build a pot for a turn shove. If you are called, you can shut it down.

cambraceres · #6 09-08-2006, 06:12 AM

Bet around psb on this flop, you want to know where you are and seriously protect your hand. There are alot of cards you don't want to see on the turn, so if called on the flop it's time to play poker. On the turn a push is needed to continue profitably, so you have to keep that in mind. I don't see a slow way to play this hand, it's profitable played fast, anything else is inferior to a c/f line.

Cam

Sat0ri · #7 09-08-2006, 07:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bet around psb on this flop, you want to know where you are and seriously protect your hand. There are alot of cards you don't want to see on the turn, so if called on the flop it's time to play poker. On the turn a push is needed to continue profitably, so you have to keep that in mind. I don't see a slow way to play this hand, it's profitable played fast, anything else is inferior to a c/f line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excuse my ignorance but isn't potting the flop and pushing the turn serious overaggro here? You are surely not exctracting any value from worse hands that way since none of them are calling, and what better hands will fold? I guess he might fold A/rag and possibly AQ (And I can bet you get called with AQ more often then not at this limit), but no way in hell you are chasing away AJ or AK. For your move to be profitable you will need to chase away more then 50% of the hands that are beating you and I don't think that is happening here.

ChipStorm · #8 09-08-2006, 07:50 AM

Scat, I would think BTN's range would be pretty wide here, wouldn't you? He has position on 4 opponents when the action comes to him; I would think he might play most pairs and SCs.

If that's the case, with that flop, I would think you'd want the hand over with as soon as possible, so I'd lead the flop hoping to take it down, and tread very carefully thereafter. But that may be an obvious line at this level for a big pair, not sure.