Monster flop

MitchL · #1 04-26-2007, 12:54 AM

Villian is new to the 15. He usually plays yellar chips, but is a favorite in most 15 games. His only noticable weaknesses is that he misses value pf and is an inexperienced handreader. His friends refer to him as lip- ring Dave.

Villain raises utg, I 3-bet w/ A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] everyone folds he calls.

Flop:

K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]:T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

villain bets, I raise, he 3 towns, I go four he calls.

turn:A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Villain checks, my action?

Hobbs. · #2 04-26-2007, 01:05 AM

ummmm bet

aK13 · #3 04-26-2007, 01:17 AM

KQ/KJ is all he can have that you pulled ahead of, and you're still drawing against TT/AK/KK/AA

Pretty sure this is an easy turn check, and if you don't improve, call one on the river and hope for KQ/KJ.

vmacosta · #4 04-26-2007, 01:17 AM

You are against 2pair or a set a ton here, so I'd just check.

But all my advice is weak/tight cuz I'm running bad and suck blhblahblah.

Captain R · #5 04-26-2007, 01:37 AM

Check. What the heck are you beating here that he is 3-towning the flop with? He probably has AK or a set.

BTW, what was your position preflop?

MitchL · #6 04-26-2007, 02:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Check. What the heck are you beating here that he is 3-towning the flop with? He probably has AK or a set.

BTW, what was your position preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry he was utg, I was utg+1.

PokerBob · #7 04-26-2007, 02:43 AM

fold preflop.

MitchL · #8 04-26-2007, 04:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I said he misses value pf I mostly meant his 3-bet, and 4-bet range is very narrow. His utg opening range is standard TAG. Do you make this fold normally?

private joker · #9 04-26-2007, 05:18 AM

I don't like the flop play. It's a nice flop for you but not a monster given villain's hand range. I think it's safe to say that you currently don't hold the best hand on the flop unless he has specifically AJs and given your read (misses value PF) it seems he's a bit too passive to raise that up front. So he had a pair PF or he has a pair now. You have a gutshot and the nut flush draw, so 12 outs to the nuts -- plus maybe an A is good (though against AA/AK/AT/KK/TT it isn't). So I would discount the overcard outs to about 1. I'm giving you 13 outs on the flop.

Heads up, 13 outs doesn't make you a favorite. However, if you <u>call the flop and raise the turn as a semi-bluff</u>, he may fold some hands you would love him to fold (like pairs), and if he calls the turn raise you still have 12 or so outs to spike on the river. Furthermore, calling the flop and raising the turn makes your hand look much bigger: raising the flop is actually a slightly weaker-looking play.

So that would have been my flop plan: call the flop, raise the turn on the semi-bluff. But now you've picked up a hand on the turn. Unfortunately, you had to 4-bet the flop to get a free card. Now he's giving it to you. Since I'm not sure the A helped you that much (he pretty much has to have KQ for that to be the case, and again the read you gave makes that an unlikely holding), you should take it. Check the turn back and call a river bet UI, and of course raise any diamond or J (and probably just call if you improve with an A or Q, though it's close with the A).

EDIT: I just saw your response to Bob about his PF tendencies. That makes AJ and KQ a bit more likely, but I still prefer my line.

npknhldr · #10 04-26-2007, 07:12 AM

PF is meh (suited call/raise (75/25) [isn't multiway pot a good thing?], unsooted fold),

Flop is interesting. Against his range after his 3-bet you are at best a slight dog, are you 4-betting for value or to get a free river? If its the latter, nice play, if it's the former, terrible play.
The ace on the turn screams c/r, and i would def. take the free card since that is why you SHOULD have 4 bet the flop (since his range has now significantly narrowed due to flop 3bet).

I still don't mind one flop raise too, since PJ's line may not be getting enough action in on flop since he didn't 4-bet pf, but as played KQ/KJ is either calling down for 1 bet each street anyways on safe cards and c/f on dangerous ones (like an A). On flop, you are pure flip against KQ/KJ, so building fold equity by calling flop (and not bloating pot when behind) and raising turn might be better.

[edit] checking turn means losing least when behind, and possibly inducing a c/c on the river when ahead.